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HomeMy WebLinkAboutElgin Liquor Commission Hearing Transcript-7-8-15Transcript of Meeting (Complete) Date: July 8, 2015 Case: Elgin Liquor Commission Planet Depos, LLC Phone: 888-433-3767 Fax: 888-503-3767 Email: transcripts@planetdepos.com Internet: www.planetdepos.com Worldwide Court Reporting | Interpretation | Trial Services 1 1 2 BEFORE THE LOCAL LIQUOR COMMISSION 3 OF THE CITY OF ELGIN 4 5 -----------------------------------x 6 In Re: : 7 Regular Meeting July 8, 2015 8 -----------------------------------x 9 10 11 MEETING 12 Elgin, Illinois 60120 13 Wednesday, July 8, 2015 14 4:32 p.m. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Job No. 75602 23 Pages 1 - 82 24 Reported by: Glenn L. Sonntag, CSR, RDR, CLVS Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 2 1 Hearing held at the location of: 2 3 4 ELGIN CITY HALL 5 150 Dexter Court 6 Elgin, Illinois 60120 7 (847) 931-6100 8 9 10 11 12 13 Before Glenn L. Sonntag, a Certified Shorthand 14 Reporter and Registered Diplomate Reporter. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 3 1 PRESENT: 2 DAVID KAPTAIN, Mayor 3 RICHARD DUNNE, Member 4 TERRY GAVIN, Member 5 ROSE MARTINEZ, Member 6 TISH POWELL, Member 7 CAROL RAUSCHENBERGER, Member 8 TOBY SHAW, Member 9 F. JOHN STEFFEN, Member 10 11 ALSO PRESENT: 12 WILLIAM COGLEY, Corporation Counsel 13 KIMBERLY DEWIS, City Clerk 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MAYOR KAPTAIN: We'll call the regular 3 meeting for the Elgin Liquor Control Commission to 4 order. 5 Will the Clerk please call the roll. 6 MS. DEWIS: Commissioners Dunne. 7 MEMBER DUNNE: Present. 8 MS. DEWIS: Gavin. 9 MEMBER GAVIN: Here. 10 MS. DEWIS: Martinez. 11 (No response.) 12 MS. DEWIS: Powell. 13 MEMBER POWELL: Here. 14 MS. DEWIS: Prigge. 15 (No response.) 16 MS. DEWIS: Rauschenberger. 17 MEMBER RAUSCHENBERGER: Here. 18 MS. DEWIS: Shaw. 19 MEMBER SHAW: Here. 20 MS. DEWIS: Steffen. 21 MEMBER STEFFEN: Here. 22 MS. DEWIS: Mayor Kaptain. 23 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Here. 24 Approval of the minutes of the previous Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 5 1 meeting of June 10th, 2015. 2 MEMBER SHAW: So moved. 3 MEMBER DUNNE: Second. 4 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Moved and seconded for 5 approval. 6 Any correction or additions? 7 (No response.) 8 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Hearing none, will the Clerk 9 please call the roll. 10 MS. DEWIS: Commissioners Dunne. 11 MEMBER DUNNE: Yes. 12 MS. DEWIS: Gavin. 13 MEMBER GAVIN: Yes. 14 MS. DEWIS: Powell. 15 MEMBER POWELL: Yes. 16 MS. DEWIS: Rauschenberger. 17 MEMBER RAUSCHENBERGER: Yes. 18 MS. DEWIS: Shaw. 19 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. 20 MS. DEWIS: Steffen. 21 MEMBER STEFFEN: Yes. 22 MS. DEWIS: Mayor Kaptain. 23 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Yes. 24 The motion is approved. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 6 1 The first item is Item D, public hearing on 2 an application by RAM Foods, a RAM Food Store, Limited 3 Liability Corporation, doing business as RAM Food, 4 located at 725 West Chicago Street for a Class B-3 5 liquor license. 6 Mr. Cogley. 7 MR. COGLEY: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. 8 So this is the application of RAM Foods. 9 You recall that the City Council, on May 6th, approved 10 an ordinance granting conditional use for an accessory 11 package liquor sales at this existing store. This 12 follows down for the -- this is the necessary liquor 13 license application following that zoning approval. 14 The application is included in your materials. 15 The B-3 is a package liquor license for 16 consumption off the premises in the original package 17 for beer and wine only, and it's subject to certain 18 additional limitations, including limits on exterior 19 signage, sales of beer limited to six-packs or more, 20 and the single serving of containers of beer is 21 prohibited, and then further limitations on the area 22 of the property which could be utilized for alcohol 23 sales. 24 The maximum occupancy for the premises is Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 7 1 49 persons. 2 The applicant has stated it is not applying 3 for a video gaming license, to conduct video gaming at 4 the premises subject to license, although, as a purely 5 package store, it would not be eligible, in any event, 6 under the Video Gaming Act. 7 The conditional use that the Council 8 approved on March 6th is also included your materials 9 and included several conditions, some of which are 10 carried over from the B-2 regulations that they're 11 applying for, the prohibiting of exterior advertising 12 and sale of alcoholic liquor, packaged beer in either 13 bottles or cans shall not be sold as a single unit, 14 and the hours of operation for the sale of alcohol are 15 limited to Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 16 9:00 p.m., and Saturday and Sunday from 10:00 a.m. to 17 8:00 p.m. 18 And, by definition, an accessory package 19 liquor use is an accessory use. It is subordinate in 20 purpose of the principal use, which this is a small 21 grocery, convenience-type store, and it is limited by 22 the Zoning Ordinance to less than 10 percent of the 23 floor area of the premises. 24 I'm recommending approval of the Class B-3 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 8 1 license application subject to the conditions 2 requiring payment of fees as outlined in the 3 materials. 4 MEMBER DUNNE: Move for approval subject to 5 the conditions. 6 MEMBER GAVIN: Second. 7 MAYOR KAPTAIN: It has been moved and 8 seconded for approval. 9 Are there any discussion, any questions for 10 Mr. Cogley from the Council, and are there 11 representatives of the Petitioner here? 12 MR. KOZAR: Yes, there is. I'm Jack Kozar. 13 I represent RAM Food. 14 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Any questions for 15 Mr. Kozar or Mr. Cogley from the Commission? 16 Mr. Gavin. 17 MEMBER GAVIN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 18 You answered the one question I had when the 19 video gaming was mentioned in the material, that they 20 weren't eligible, which is fine. 21 2. I voted against this as a conditional 22 use. I'm not largely opposed to them having a liquor 23 license, but I was opposed to having a conditional use. 24 It may be splitting hairs, but I'm going to Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 9 1 go ahead and support this because I -- I realize it's 2 not a big impact, but there was opposition to it in 3 the neighborhood, and I was just voicing their -- 4 representing their opposition. 5 MR. KOZAR: Sure. Thank you. 6 MEMBER GAVIN: I knew it would pass. 7 Okay. That's all. 8 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Anything else? 9 Mr. Shaw. 10 MEMBER SHAW: What products are being 11 displaced from the store by adding a liquor area? 12 MR. KOZAR: Nothing is really being 13 displaced. They had some extra room in there. 14 They've consolidated some of their existing products, 15 so the two-by-eight cooler that they want to set up, 16 that's all that they're going to do is a two-by-eight 17 cooler. It's less than two percent of the floor 18 space, so after kind of consolidating and just 19 rearranging slightly to be able to find that 20 two percent, it really wasn't all that entirely 21 difficult for them. 22 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. Would you -- how would 23 you describe your clientele? I mean, is it mostly 24 local folks? Do you get a lot of walk-ins or a lot Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 10 1 of -- or a lot of just local residents? 2 MR. KOZAR: It's almost exclusively local 3 residents, people within walking distance, you know, 4 people coming home from work. 5 RAM Foods is a -- it's a small, family-owned 6 grocery store, so it's not like a supermarket or 7 anything like that, but they really kind of have a 8 niche market right in that direct community, and Frank 9 and Suze, they know everybody who comes in there by 10 name. 11 Most of their clientele is continuous, 12 repeat customers, so the times that I've spent in 13 there, I -- actually, I commented one time to Frank 14 that, I said, "Do you know everybody who comes into 15 your store?" because everybody who walks in there, 16 he's "Joe, Pete, Sally," whatever it is, you know, he 17 knows everybody who walks into that store, if that 18 answers your question. 19 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. 20 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Ms. Martinez. 21 MEMBER MARTINEZ: Shortly after I stopped 22 by, myself, and I was kind of impressed, because I had 23 never walked in there, I just wanted to see it, 24 myself, and I was surprised that they even knew who I Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 11 1 was, and so we talked for a little bit and you're 2 right. As soon as I walked in, everybody that walked 3 in after me, they knew who they were, and I felt it 4 was a neighborhood place. 5 And I looked around and I saw, and what they 6 had kind of reminded me of a store that my family 7 owned, as well. It's a neighborhood store. They had 8 everything. Everybody went in and I was kind of 9 impressed so yes. 10 Thank you. 11 MR. KOZAR: Thank you. 12 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Any further questions from 13 the Commission? 14 (No response.) 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Would you like to 16 make a statement or you feel -- 17 MR. KOZAR: You know, I'm happy to answer 18 questions. 19 My only statement would just be that they're 20 really just looking to compete with the competition 21 around that sells beer and wine and that. They don't 22 expect that this is going to be, honestly, a big 23 profit-maker for them. It's only two percent of their 24 floor space, but they feel that they're losing out on Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 12 1 business for people who want to come in and get 2 groceries and then, also, perhaps, get a bottle of 3 wine and a six-pack of beer or something like that, 4 and because they can't get it at RAM Food, they take 5 all their purchases somewhere else, and within just a 6 couple-mile radius of there, there is a rather large 7 selection of other places that they can go. 8 So the owners of RAM Food, really, all 9 they're looking for is the opportunity to compete. 10 They believe that the absolute bulk of the money that 11 they will take in, the revenue they will take in is 12 from grocery items, but this will allow them to 13 compete in that -- compete with their competition in 14 that small radius, so, you know, I -- I ask for your 15 support today. 16 Frank and Suze, my -- my clients, they're 17 excellent people. They're kind of the American story, 18 and they -- this is truly a family-owned store, so 19 they will be very dedicated to following any -- any 20 rules that are set forth. They have in the past. 21 One caveat to it is, to their credit, there 22 has not been one police call to that property in the 23 last year, perhaps longer. I got that from -- from 24 the Police Chief, the Police Department itself, so Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 13 1 they run a tight ship, and they run a tight ship at 2 home, and they run a tight ship with their -- with 3 their business, and they have every expectation of 4 continuing that, so I appreciate your support. 5 Thank you. 6 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Thank you. 7 Any further questions? 8 (No response.) 9 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Hearing none, will 10 the Clerk please call the roll. 11 MS. DEWIS: Commissioners Dunne. 12 MEMBER DUNNE: Yes. 13 MS. DEWIS: Gavin. 14 MEMBER GAVIN: Yes. 15 MS. DEWIS: Martinez. 16 MEMBER MARTINEZ: Yes. 17 MS. DEWIS: Powell. 18 MEMBER POWELL: Yes. 19 MS. DEWIS: Rauschenberger. 20 MEMBER RAUSCHENBERGER: Yes. 21 MS. DEWIS: Shaw. 22 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. 23 MS. DEWIS: Steffen. 24 MEMBER STEFFEN: Yes. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 14 1 MS. DEWIS: Mayor Kaptain. 2 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Yes. 3 The motion is approved 8-0. 4 MR. KOZAR: Thank you, Council. 5 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Congratulations. Please 6 pass the word to your clients. 7 MR. KOZAR: Thank you. 8 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Item E is a public hearing 9 on application by Olde Towne, Incorporated, doing 10 business as Olde Towne Inn, located at 412 Bluff City 11 Boulevard, for a Class E-3 liquor license and 12 consideration of Amended Application for a Class A 13 liquor license. 14 Mr. Cogley. 15 MR. COGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 16 The Olde Towne Inn is an interesting 17 establishment, and it currently has an E-3 license, 18 which is a -- one of the subclasses of restaurant 19 license which has a -- certain requirements of 20 capacity, to serve 60 -- a dining area of 60 persons 21 and 50 percent or more gross revenues and percentage 22 of floor area. 23 The service hours for a Class 3 are standard 24 liquor license, Sunday through Thursday until Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 15 1 1:00 a.m., and Friday and Saturday until 2:00 a.m. the 2 following day. 3 The property, the business is being sold, so 4 the buyer, as required, is coming in to apply for 5 their own license, and when we reviewed the materials, 6 we note that the layout of the establishment appears 7 now to have been changed and the premises will no 8 longer qualify for the Class E-3 license. 9 And so, given that, and given the operations 10 of the establishment, I am suggesting that any -- I 11 should note, as indicated in the materials, that for 12 many years the establishment had been issued a Class A 13 license and had been complying with that without -- 14 without any problems, and apparently decided, I'm 15 advised, in 2012, to get a Class E-3, which was 16 apparently based upon the fact that there is a lower 17 license fee for an E-3 than an A, the difference 18 between currently $1,540 for an A and $660 for an E-3. 19 Because they do not qualify for an E-3, I am 20 not able to recommend approval of this proposed 21 application, but I am recommending the applicant be 22 advised to amend its application to a Class A. The 23 application of a Class A I would recommend approval 24 for subject to the conditions in the memorandum. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 16 1 The applicant has indicated he does intend 2 to apply for a video gaming license to conduct video 3 gaming at the premises, so I'm recommending, if the 4 licensee is willing to amend to a Class A, approval of 5 a Class A license subject to the conditions in the 6 materials. 7 MEMBER POWELL: Move to approve subject to 8 the conditions. 9 MEMBER GAVIN: Second. 10 MAYOR KAPTAIN: It's been moved and seconded 11 to approve the petition. 12 Any questions for Mr. Cogley? 13 Are the representatives of Olde Towne 14 Inn here? 15 MS. MAPLE: Yes. 16 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Will you state your name for 17 the Court Reporter, please. 18 MS. MAPLE: Patsy Maple. 19 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. 20 MS. MAPLE: Patsy Maple. 21 THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 22 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Gavin. 23 MEMBER GAVIN: I'll start off again. 24 Is the sale of the business contingent upon Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 17 1 the issuing of the liquor license, I would assume. 2 MS. MAPLE: We're purchasing the entire 3 building as well as the business. 4 MEMBER GAVIN: Right. 5 MS. MAPLE: And it is contingent upon the 6 liquor license. 7 MEMBER GAVIN: Okay. My question is, we 8 have to go back to the Council and create a new 9 license. 10 MR. COGLEY: A new Class A, correct. 11 MEMBER GAVIN: This will delay the process 12 because we can't give approval until there's another 13 license. 14 MR. COGLEY: That's correct. 15 MEMBER GAVIN: Will that be a problem for 16 you, as -- 17 MS. MAPLE: That would be a problem for 18 closing, which is why we assumed the license exactly 19 as it was, and the floor plan submitted is what the 20 previous owner, Sharon Poole, had submitted. I did 21 not submit a new floor plan. It is the one that she 22 had had on record since the beginning. 23 MR. COGLEY: What is your closing date? 24 MS. MAPLE: Our closing date was to be last Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 18 1 month. We moved it to Friday of this week. 2 MEMBER GAVIN: See, that's what I was 3 thinking about is that complication. 4 Any thoughts, Bill? 5 MR. COGLEY: Well, they -- they would have 6 to alter the floor plans and try to accommodate it, 7 but I don't think the premises, as it's currently laid 8 out and it's currently utilized, is large enough to do 9 that so, on its face, it doesn't comply. 10 I -- and we do limit almost all of the 11 classes of licenses, so other than the existing E-3, 12 we would need an ordinance to do that. 13 The -- the only alternative, as far as we -- 14 we don't have a second meeting in July, a second 15 Council meeting in July, we only have the special 16 Committee of the Whole meeting. 17 If it were the Council's pleasure, we could 18 add a short City Council meeting, special City Council 19 meeting to that, as well, and create and adopt the 20 ordinance. That procedure is very easy to do. We 21 just create a notice of a special meeting that we're 22 doing with the other meeting and create a one-item 23 agenda to adopt an ordinance for a Class A. 24 MAYOR KAPTAIN: That would be July 18th. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 19 1 MS. MAPLE: Okay. 2 MAYOR KAPTAIN: A Saturday, just so you 3 know. 4 MEMBER GAVIN: I think -- excuse me. 5 I think, if that's the only way out of this 6 situation, then I think it's appropriate. I think 7 your recommendation is accurate. We can't give them 8 an E-3 if it doesn't qualify -- 9 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Right. 10 MEMBER GAVIN: -- as a restaurant. 11 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Any option would be would be 12 six weeks, would be almost six weeks until the next 13 Council meeting. 14 MEMBER DUNNE: I do have a concern. 15 My concern is is that the floor plan, as 16 required in Question 10 on our application, is a photo 17 of the exterior. The attachment was marked yes. It 18 was not a photo. 19 The floor plan is supposed to be -- because 20 we're going for a new license now, I mean, each time 21 it's -- each owner is technically a new license, I 22 understand that, but we're not even going for the same 23 class of license, that it's supposed to be a new plan. 24 It sounds like the building had been altered Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 20 1 to storage areas and things like that, so the plan 2 that was submitted, obviously, doesn't meet our 3 standards of the plan, as stated in the materials 4 here, which is to be prepared and under the seal of an 5 architect or engineer licensed to practice in the 6 state of Illinois. 7 So we would have to have the plan submitted 8 properly, also, to comply with the -- if she was 9 staying in the same class, it wouldn't bother me 10 because the business would be still existing, but with 11 it being a new license, it would concern me. 12 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Ms. Powell. 13 MEMBER POWELL: Thank you. 14 A question for Corporation Counsel. 15 Once they became aware that they did not 16 meet the requirements for the Class E license, were 17 they notified of that? 18 MR. COGLEY: They were last week. 19 MEMBER POWELL: So last week they were 20 notified that they needed to apply for a Class A? 21 MR. COGLEY: Yes. I reviewed the materials, 22 I reviewed them about a week out for -- they go 23 through -- they get routed through the different 24 departments -- Community Development, Building Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 21 1 Department, Fire Department -- and then I review their 2 reviews approximately a week before and prepare the 3 agenda materials, so when I reviewed it, I noted the 4 discrepancy in the classification and I had the City 5 Clerk contact the applicant and advise them of this 6 issue. 7 MEMBER POWELL: Did they note -- did they 8 indicate at that time a notification of any intention 9 to apply, reapply for a Class A? 10 MR. COGLEY: They just need to amend their 11 application, Kim? 12 MS. DEWIS: Yes. They would only have to 13 change to the Class A. 14 MEMBER POWELL: Would they have been able to 15 do that at that time so that it would have been ready 16 for this week or no? 17 MR. COGLEY: Well, they can -- they can just 18 do it on the face of it. It's just rechanging the 19 class on the application, so they could do it today, 20 tomorrow, they can do it -- that's just subject to 21 one of the conditions, so it's not -- it's not a 22 timing-dependent event, but we just -- we need an 23 ordinance. That's what delays the approval after 24 today. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 22 1 MEMBER DUNNE: But with the Open Meetings 2 Act, this would have never made this Council agenda. 3 MR. COGLEY: Oh, no. I don't -- I don't -- 4 except under a very rare occasion do I -- would I put 5 an ordinance based on -- on an agenda for the same 6 night as a Liquor Commission meeting to presuppose an 7 action, particularly where there's going to be an 8 amendment to an application. There is too many moving 9 parts here for me to have added that to your agenda 10 without you having considered this and discussing this 11 Class A issue. 12 So, you know, we need 48 hours, so given 13 that they're -- the meeting is this evening, I 14 wouldn't have -- wouldn't have put something on like 15 that. 16 MAYOR KAPTAIN: So to kind of move it along 17 here, the -- to answer Mr. Dunne's concern that the 18 plans are not adequate for the new facility, in order 19 to meet the deadline of the 18th, they would have to 20 present those plans back to the -- Mr. Cogley before 21 the 18th of July, amended plans. That would become 22 the new condition, then, for the permit. 23 MEMBER DUNNE: I don't have a problem with 24 that. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 23 1 MAYOR KAPTAIN: And would allow us to move 2 forward on the 18th, and we can add it as a special 3 portion of the -- of the Committee of the Whole 4 meeting, and that would be a new condition, that you 5 would have to have the required plans available for us 6 by that time, and it has to be public noticed so that 7 would have to be by the 16th. 8 MR. COGLEY: And what I -- what -- what -- 9 how we would have to proceed in an instance like that 10 is, so there will be -- there will be an agenda and 11 notice of this special Committee of the Whole meeting. 12 We will issue a separate second agenda for a notice of 13 a special City Council meeting, and it will be, call 14 to order, take the roll, this ordnance, and 15 adjournment. 16 MAYOR KAPTAIN: All right. 17 MEMBER DUNNE: And you were ahead of the 18 Mayor tonight. You could add that to your -- when we 19 call the special Meeting of the Whole meeting, add in 20 that there will be also a special regular meeting. 21 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. We can do that, yes, 22 if that's the desire of the Council. 23 Mr. Gavin. 24 MEMBER GAVIN: And I'm glad to hear that Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 24 1 we're working out a solution here kind of on the fly. 2 And you understand what's going on here, 3 don't you, Patsy? 4 MS. MAPLE: I do have some concerns about 5 what's going on here based on the fact that I 6 submitted this application nearly three months ago, 7 and this is the first time that I have heard about 8 this. 9 MR. COGLEY: Well, okay. 10 In fairness to that comment, it was not a 11 completed application. What we get is, we get 12 piecemeal applications. We don't have a stock 13 purchase agreement. We don't have materials. 14 People come in and they fill out the partial 15 application, and we don't bring them to you until 16 they're completed, so the process started, but the 17 stock purchase agreement itself, which is attached to 18 your materials on the real estate contract -- 19 MS. MAPLE: At that time I was told to apply 20 as it is, exactly as it is as an E-3. 21 I actually said, "Do I need to apply as an 22 A?" and I was told, "No. It's an E-3. You can apply 23 the same way." 24 So at that point I believed that, if this Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 25 1 Council approved it as an E-3 at that time, with the 2 exact floor plan that Ms. Poole submitted a couple 3 years ago, that if I'm purchasing it exactly as it is 4 and renovating it, I don't see why the condition 5 still -- why it's subject to change if it was okay for 6 the last three years with the floor plan that she had 7 submitted. 8 MR. COGLEY: Well, I would just point out 9 that the stock purchase agreement that we were 10 provided is dated June 29th, so that was just recently 11 that that was completed, and those were one of the 12 items that we were waiting to present to you. 13 It also calls for a closing on the real 14 estate installment sale agreement for August 1st, and 15 there's a blank closing date on the stock purchase 16 agreement so we -- we -- 17 MEMBER GAVIN: Well, I guess what we're 18 trying to do here is balance support for small 19 business with following the law, and the Liquor 20 Commission is, you know, a function of the State, and 21 you know all the regulations. You've been in the 22 business before. It's something my family was 23 involved in in Chicago, a small neighborhood tavern, 24 so I have a pretty good understanding of the trials Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 26 1 and tribulations, especially in changing 2 neighborhoods. 3 But we're doing all we can here, and you're 4 going to have the same use of the facility as an A as 5 it would be in a 3, so we're not telling you to change 6 operations. 7 I don't know if we need any other 8 conditions. The building is being -- basically, just 9 changing the ownership, not the building, so why would 10 we tack on any more requirements on the application 11 other than amending it to A and then creating a new 12 license for you to be able to go into business? 13 That's a very popular place. You've got a nice garden 14 in the back. 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: The -- the appropriate plans 16 for a new facility would be a requirement. 17 Mr. Steffen. 18 MEMBER STEFFEN: Well, that's where I was 19 going to jump in. I'm not sure if that is. I would 20 leave that up to Bill, who is our counsel, but I read 21 the language that I believe Commissioner Dunne was 22 referring to in Question 10 on the application. 23 It says, "required for an initial license of 24 a premises and for an E or E-1," but this is A, and Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 27 1 it's not even the initial license at the premises, so 2 I'm not sure if it is required but -- 3 MEMBER GAVIN: Well, I'm asking. 4 MEMBER STEFFEN: Yes. 5 MEMBER GAVIN: I'm not an attorney but you 6 guys are. 7 MR. COGLEY: We have -- we have not 8 typically required new architectural drawings where 9 there's been -- even where there's a change of 10 ownership. Where there's an existing building and 11 improvements, we have accepted sketches and other 12 things that's similar to what's presented here. 13 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. So that's been 14 acceptable in the past. 15 MEMBER DUNNE: I would venture that this is 16 not even a sketch, though. This is not to scale of 17 any type whatsoever. I don't see how we're going to 18 be able to look at occupancy loads or anything, 19 really, off of this plan. 20 I don't feel that it's a true representation 21 of what we've done in the past. We might have done 22 things like this in the past, but I don't feel that 23 it's a way that we should be conducting business in 24 the future or today. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 28 1 I feel that, as we've been told, when a 2 transfer or action happens, it is an initial license. 3 We're creating a new license, again, for this, so I -- 4 I take exception to not requiring to have the 5 submitted plans properly done. 6 MEMBER GAVIN: Then we should take a vote? 7 No? 8 MR. COGLEY: It's at the Council's pleasure. 9 If they want to require new architectural 10 plans, that's -- that's up to the Commissioners to 11 decide that. 12 MAYOR KAPTAIN: And that would be determined 13 on the fact that this is an application for a new 14 license -- 15 MR. COGLEY: Right. 16 MAYOR KAPTAIN: -- for the facility, a 17 different license for the facility? 18 MR. COGLEY: We -- we have -- we have -- our 19 practice has been, under -- under the application, if 20 it is a new license -- and it is an initial license, I 21 should say, we have required architectural plans and 22 renderings, and I think we have -- I can't point to 23 cases, but I think our practice has been to accept 24 less formal drawings when there is an existing Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 29 1 establishment and someone who is obtaining a new 2 license because it's a new owner, and -- and that has 3 been our practice. 4 This -- this -- I will note, this drawing is 5 about as rough as you can get -- 6 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. 7 MR. COGLEY: -- and -- and is, perhaps, not 8 the best rendering we would hope to get, but the 9 Building Department did run an occupancy calculation 10 and has provided that for us, and it is -- it is in 11 your materials. 12 But it is up to the Commission. If you want 13 to go back to a more formal drawing, that would be, 14 obviously, your authority. 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Steffen. 16 MEMBER STEFFEN: I can follow that with some 17 questions. 18 So -- so did the Building Department, for 19 occupancy, they go to the premises or did they rely on 20 the drawing? The same with the Fire Department for 21 the fire safety. 22 MR. COGLEY: With the new occupancy, there 23 will be an inspection. I don't know -- I know that 24 there was an analysis done. I don't know whether they Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 30 1 went to the property or not. 2 MS. MAPLE: We had all the inspections 3 completed. 4 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Ms. Martinez. 5 MEMBER MARTINEZ: Being an existing 6 building, they would know what the occupancy would be, 7 wouldn't it? They would know from the past. 8 MR. COGLEY: Well -- and, yes, they would, 9 or they should, but -- but occupancy loads can change. 10 The establishment can change the seating, they change 11 the arrangements, they move the bar, they move tables, 12 and so that can change, and so you -- you do need, 13 when you issue a new occupancy, a new owner, you 14 should -- there should be an inspection and a new 15 occupancy issued, and that calculation should be 16 remade and then posted at the premises, and the 17 Building Department has conducted that analysis. 18 MEMBER STEFFEN: But to follow on my 19 comments, you can't tell if they did that based on the 20 drawing or if they went out personally? 21 MR. COGLEY: I'd have to confer with 22 Raoul Johnson to see whether he -- he went -- that it 23 was both the drawing and an inspection or what -- what 24 he based that on. I don't know how he did it, but we Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 31 1 can certainly have him confirm the occupancy again. 2 There's -- we can speak with him and confirm that, 3 that there had been a proper inspection of the 4 premises, and they have to comply with all applicable 5 ordinances. The new owner has to get a new occupancy 6 for the establishment. 7 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Dunne. 8 MEMBER DUNNE: And, actually, to 9 Commissioner Martinez's, we didn't require occupancy 10 permits to be issued with occupancy loads on them. 11 They were part of the Code, but we didn't require that 12 to be done until probably about four years ago for 13 places of public assembly, so there probably wasn't 14 records of this establishment back at that time. 15 And -- and looking at the materials 16 provided, it says that some of the area was converted 17 into a storeroom now, so the existing permit -- I 18 don't know what has been changed, and I can't really 19 tell by looking at the rendering that we have here, so 20 that's where my concern comes in, is that if we have 21 altered the floor plan of the building, which, because 22 we had 60 people in there before and we don't have 23 60 people in there now, some type of alteration 24 happened, and that's what's stated in our materials. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 32 1 With the rendering we have, I can't really tell 2 what -- 3 MS. MAPLE: I don't know if I'm allowed to 4 speak or not, but there have been no alterations made 5 since 1984. There is an addition on the back that you 6 were not able to access from the outside. They do use 7 that exclusively for storage, which is why we 8 continued to use Mrs. Pool's rough-drawn print. 9 The bar remains the same. It's been the 10 same bar there for 107 years. It's still the exact 11 same bar, still the exact same floor in the building, 12 and still the exact same ceiling, so as a result, we 13 have -- the Building Commission was in. We had to 14 bring it to Code because Ms. Poole was unable to bring 15 it to Code at this point. 16 The Health Department came in. She was 17 unable to bring it to Code, so I brought it to Code 18 even though I don't own it, and the Fire Department 19 came in and we brought it to Code, as well. 20 So there has been no structural changes 21 since she took ownership in the '90s. She has done 22 zero. 23 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Gavin. 24 MEMBER GAVIN: A couple more quick things. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 33 1 No. 1. The Fire Department inspects all 2 commercial businesses once a year; is that not true? 3 So they've been inspected for the last -- 4 MEMBER DUNNE: They actually don't conduct 5 an inspection. They conduct a fire safety survey. 6 MEMBER GAVIN: But they go to the business 7 and they actually look at it for safety concerns. 8 That's No. 1. 9 No. 2 is, any renovations are done to the 10 inside of the building, any major renovations, it 11 would require a building permit. There were no 12 building permits taken out. As you said, nothing has 13 been done. 14 I -- I -- I would not support putting any 15 more burden on a small business owner, who's already 16 having to jump through several hoops to just take over 17 ownership and invest, and you've already invested, it 18 sounds like. 19 MS. MAPLE: Nearly $12,000. 20 MEMBER GAVIN: And you don't have -- 21 you don't have -- 22 MS. MAPLE: And I don't have this, which is 23 why we held up the stock purchase agreement. 24 MEMBER GAVIN: No. I -- I think that's Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 34 1 pretty obvious. We've got a -- we've got a good 2 businessperson here who -- we're not bending any 3 rules. We're just simply following the common sense, 4 so if I have to, I'll make a motion that we accept 5 what has been submitted, along with the amended 6 application necessary to consider this on the 18th, 7 and then we discuss it finally on the 18th. 8 Is that a legal motion, Bill? 9 MEMBER DUNNE: We have a motion already. 10 MAYOR KAPTAIN: We have a motion already. 11 I have one question for Mr. Cogley. 12 Mr. Cogley, do you feel that these -- the 13 plans that you have are appropriate? 14 Hey, I'm almost a volunteer here. You're 15 the -- 16 MR. COGLEY: I'll say this: We -- we try to 17 balance the requirements of the Ordinance and -- and 18 assist applicants in processing their applications, 19 and this is an extensive process of background checks 20 and inspections, and so they go -- they go through, as 21 they should, quite an analysis. 22 Where we have existing establishments, we 23 have typically allowed handwritten plans, and they 24 come in different quality versions. This one is Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 35 1 one of the poorer ones, but it -- frankly, as far as 2 analyzing for just the purposes of issuing a liquor 3 license, what I need to see is -- is the dining areas, 4 the number of seats. It provides me the information 5 that I need to determine whether they are eligible for 6 an E-3 license, and so they are not, and that's why I 7 suggested a Class A. 8 They still have to comply with all our other 9 ordinances. I mean, this is not -- I don't consider 10 my review or the Liquor Commission's consideration or 11 Building Department or Fire Department analysis of 12 whether an occupancy permanent should be issued. If 13 that were the case, the -- the drawing is totally 14 insufficient. 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Uh-huh. 16 MR. COGLEY: But that's not what I believe 17 we're doing here, and so for the purposes of today and 18 the circumstances, the -- the -- the long answer to 19 your question is, I consider it sufficient. 20 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. So we have a motion 21 on the floor, and the motion would be that this -- 22 the -- if I'm correct -- my memory I don't know about -- 23 that this is subject to conditions, that we would 24 amend the agenda for the 18th of July -- Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 36 1 MS. DEWIS: Right. 2 MAYOR KAPTAIN: -- and allow this to come 3 forward to the Council as a recommendation on the 18th 4 of July that -- 5 MR. COGLEY: And the other conditions 6 outlined in the -- in the memorandum of July 2. 7 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. 8 MEMBER STEFFEN: Just quickly, two comments 9 because, once we go, we won't be able to talk about it 10 anymore, and these are more practical things. 11 One is that maybe we should look at our form 12 and change it to make this language kind of follow 13 more closely the practice -- which I agree with. I 14 think it's okay -- so we don't run into this. 15 And another practical matter is, if an 16 applicant is going to be directed into changing 17 their -- their license to a different class, that they 18 be advised for their back end, their real estate deal 19 and all the things that they're doing on the back end, 20 that that involves another meeting with another 21 license being created, so that they know up front that 22 they're going to run into this time delay and that 23 they can adjust their agreement on the back end 24 accordingly so we can be a little more user-friendly Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 37 1 to the applicant, so just two, two practical things. 2 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Mr. Dunne. 3 MEMBER DUNNE: I -- I -- I agree. If we're 4 going to need to -- if we need to change 10, then we 5 need to change 10. 6 The other thing that, I don't know if it 7 would be appropriate to bring it up now or under 8 miscellaneous business, but I would like to have the 9 Corporation Counsel look into how the previous license 10 was issued two years ago was issued upon an occupancy 11 of 60 for dining and bring that back to us. 12 Do we have any others that we've issued 13 licenses to erroneously that should not have been able 14 to receive these licenses? 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. We have a motion on 16 the floor. Any further comments? 17 The motion is to move this to the July 18th 18 Committee of the Whole meeting and add it as a part of 19 the City Council meeting. We'll have to public notice 20 that on the 16th, so anything that has to be added to 21 this will have to be there by then. We'll make the 22 announcement tonight. 23 Will the Clerk please call the roll. 24 MS. DEWIS: Commissioners Dunne. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 38 1 MEMBER DUNNE: Yes. 2 MS. DEWIS: Gavin. 3 MEMBER GAVIN: Yes. 4 MS. DEWIS: Martinez? 5 MEMBER MARTINEZ: Yes. 6 MS. DEWIS: Powell. 7 MEMBER POWELL: Yes. 8 MS. DEWIS: Rauschenberger. 9 MEMBER RAUSCHENBERGER: Yes. 10 MS. DEWIS: Shaw. 11 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. 12 MS. DEWIS: Steffen. 13 MEMBER STEFFEN: Yes. 14 MS. DEWIS: Mayor Kaptain. 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Yes. The motion is approved 16 8-0. 17 Just a word. If this gets approved next 18 Saturday or a week from Saturday, you're up for 19 renewal in May, and I would suggest that you get a new 20 drawing for us -- 21 MS. MAPLE: I can do that. 22 MAYOR KAPTAIN: -- by next May. 23 Thank you. 24 Okay. This brings us to Item F, discussion Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 39 1 of issues regarding Gasthaus Zur Linde, Incorporated, 2 doing business as Gasthaus, at 13-15 North Grove 3 Avenue, including compliance with applicable liquor 4 license regulations and discussion of licensee's 5 request for reconsideration of the denial of an 6 exterior sales permit. 7 Mr. Cogley. 8 MR. COGLEY: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 9 At the May Liquor Commission meeting, the 10 Council denied the application by Gasthaus Zur Linde 11 for an exterior sales permit, and following that 12 action was further discussion about certain concerns 13 about whether the Gasthaus was complying with its 14 liquor license regulations and certain instances of 15 disorder and fighting which had occurred at the 16 premises, and the Commission directed me to correspond 17 with the Gasthaus and to raise these issues, including 18 whether they wished to apply for a different class of 19 liquor license the Gasthaus could comply with. 20 And, as you know, I sent them a letter of 21 May 13th, 2015, to Mr. Muscarello, who is here today, 22 seated, and raising those issues and requested a 23 response, which I did receive from Mr. Muscarello 24 several weeks later, on June 2nd, and which you also Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 40 1 had a copy of and are also included in your agenda 2 materials, and a subsequent letter from Mr. Muscarello 3 of June 26th. 4 There are really three matters, I think, 5 that are up -- that may be up for discussion and, of 6 course, there may be other matters that the Commission 7 members themselves wish to raise, but with respect 8 to this, two of which were raised in my letter of 9 May 13th. 10 The first of those is whether the Gasthaus 11 is complying with its Class U liquor license 12 regulations. 13 A Class U liquor license can be called a 14 restaurant license classification, and several phrases 15 are where meals are actually -- are served and 16 regularly served, and the provision that -- the intent 17 of this license classification is that the primary 18 business conducted on the premises to be licensed 19 shall be the service of meals in a restaurant that 20 also has an integrated tavern area. 21 And as was noted in my letter, in 2014, 22 based upon figures submitted by the Gasthaus itself, 23 food sales represent only 7.5 -- 7.58 percent of gross 24 revenues in 2014, while alcohol sales represent Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 41 1 92.42 percent of gross revenues in 2014. 2 Based on this circumstance, it's my opinion 3 that the primary business conducted on the premises 4 has not been the service of meals but is instead the 5 sale of alcohol and, as you know, the Gasthaus has 6 been aware of this issue since at least 2014. There 7 was some discussion about it previously at some of the 8 earlier hearings. 9 The review of the 2014 sales information 10 indicates that Gasthaus has not taken any steps to 11 conform to the regulations, to the Class U in this 12 regard, and, in fact, some of their earlier years had 13 very similar sales figures, so this has been a 14 consistent pattern. 15 I pointed this out to the Gasthaus in my 16 letter to Mr. Muscarello and asked them to review the 17 other license classifications, which I provided, to 18 determine whether an alternative liquor license 19 classification exists that the Gasthaus could comply 20 with, and provided them that information. 21 I also noted in my letter that the Gasthaus 22 for many years prior to 2010 actually had a Class A 23 license and switched to a Class U license in 24 approximately 2010. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 42 1 And Mr. Muscarello's response -- and I'll 2 deal with his first issue first -- indicates that the 3 Gasthaus would consider applying for a Class A but 4 only if it had the right to stay open until 3:00 a.m., 5 as it does under the Class U. 6 He also responded that the Gasthaus believes 7 that both of -- that the Gasthaus is complying with 8 those regulations, that it is a restaurant and it is 9 complying with those circumstances through its current 10 operations. 11 Mr. Muscarello also raised a couple of other 12 points in that he believes this matter was already 13 litigated in the earlier liquor license complaint, and 14 he believes it would be a violation of their 15 procedural and substantive due process rights and 16 would subject Gasthaus to prohibited double jeopardy, 17 and the Liquor Commission would be estopped from 18 raising the same allegations they have not violated. 19 He also has suggested that the City is 20 unlawfully and illegally retaliating based upon the 21 Gasthaus's objection to the conditional use permit for 22 a planned development for the tower redevelopment. 23 One of the things that I don't believe was 24 responded to specifically was that the primary Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 43 1 business to be conducted on the premises be the 2 service of meals in a restaurant. 3 Where you have less than eight percent of 4 your sales being food sales, it cannot be called the 5 primary business, in my opinion. It is clear that the 6 primary business is the sale of alcohol. 7 Secondly, double jeopardy is a criminal 8 concept, so we don't need to really discuss that. It 9 doesn't apply to civil matters, but the -- the -- the 10 prior Liquor Commission complaint alleged that on a 11 specific date and a specific time they were violating 12 the Class U regulations because of the specific 13 activities that were being conducted at that date and 14 time, and the Commission, after a hearing, declined to 15 find them guilty on that point. 16 That doesn't mean that they -- the -- a 17 licensee, because they were found not guilty of 18 violating a certain ordinance at one date in time, 19 can't violate it in the future. You're not precluded 20 from relitigating different allegations and different 21 circumstances even if it may apply to the same 22 ordinance, so these arguments of double jeopardy and 23 estoppel, in my opinion, have no merit. 24 It is -- this is an ongoing -- if it is a Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 44 1 violation -- which I believe it is -- is an ongoing 2 violation, and the Commission, if it chooses to, may 3 direct and authorize the filing of a complaint on that 4 issue. 5 The -- one of the second issues that was 6 raised is the -- there have been a number of instances 7 of fighting and disorder that have occurred on the 8 premises and outside, immediately outside of the 9 premises, and those are listed in my letter. 10 There was, as I noted in my recent letter, 11 one misstatement with that. Mr. Muscarello has 12 responded to several of them but not all of them. I 13 would characterize the response overall is, these 14 things are happening outside and not at the Gasthaus. 15 The Gasthaus is the only business open in 16 that neighborhood from 2:00 to 3:00 in the morning, 17 and you will notice that, incidentally, that virtually 18 all of these incidents -- there's one or two 19 exceptions -- have occurred between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m., 20 which is the extended late night hours, and I -- I do 21 not believe that it is a defense for a licensee to 22 avoid its responsibility under our Liquor Code to 23 maintain peace on a licensed premises by simply 24 saying, "The customers are conducting their fighting Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 45 1 outside of the front door, out on the sidewalk, in the 2 street." 3 In fact, the licensed premises, under the 4 preservation of peace on the licensed premises under 5 6.06.145.D, is defined and it includes "any adjoining 6 or adjacent public property utilized by the patrons of 7 the licensed establishment, including but not limited 8 to any sidewalks, streets, alleys or parking lots." 9 It is a responsibility of the licensee to 10 maintain peace and order, to not have an establishment 11 which is a nuisance, which is a cause of a law 12 enforcement problem for the City and the City's police 13 department, and to have these repeated incidents of 14 fighting, disorder outside of the premises, I believe, 15 is a violation of our Liquor Code, and when they -- if 16 there are 10 or more within a year, there is a 17 presumption that it is a public nuisance. 18 I believe there was an incident in the early 19 morning hours of July 3rd which I provided you the 20 report on. There was a fight. There was an 21 aggravated battery where an individual was severely 22 lacerated on his ear with a knife in a fighting 23 incident in the establishment that spilled outside. 24 This is yet another incident, and we are -- Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 46 1 we are approaching the 10 or more, and there is not 2 another establishment that is even close to the number 3 and severity of incidents that this establishment has 4 been -- has been having, and it is their absolute 5 responsibility to have that behavior discontinued. 6 Having said that, there is -- there is a 7 continued pattern where this behavior is occurring 8 between 2:00 and 3:00. 9 The standard liquor license hours -- and 10 they are typically occurring on the weekends. 11 The standard liquor license hours -- I call 12 it the "standard" because most of the licenses have 13 liquor license hours of Sunday to Thursdays until 14 1:00 a.m., and then Friday night and Saturday night to 15 the following morning until 2:00 a.m., so 2:00 a.m. on 16 the weekend. The Gasthaus has a 3:00 a.m. license. 17 They are the only entity that holds the Class U. 18 And so this -- this ongoing problematic 19 disorder that's occurring between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m., 20 one of the considerations the Commission may want, 21 one alternative the Commission may want to consider is 22 changing their hours of operation and turning into the 23 standard liquor license hours. That would be 24 consistent with most of the other restaurant licenses Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 47 1 which have a 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m. license, and that 2 would avoid what we see in some instances with late 3 night where the crowd that's been out most of the 4 night drinking goes for that -- you know, gathers at 5 that extended hours bar for the end of the evening and 6 the trouble starts. That would be one consideration. 7 Another consideration to clarify what is 8 meant in the regulation by the primary business to be 9 conducted on the premises be the service and sale of 10 meals in a restaurant is to treat the Gasthaus 11 restaurant license like we treat all the other Class E 12 restaurant licenses, which is to clarify that we mean 13 a percentage of your business must be from the sale of 14 food versus alcohol, and that sets an objective 15 standard for them to meet and then there's no 16 misunderstanding, and that would be certainly fair 17 treatment for them because that's how we treat our 18 other Class E licensees, and the same for the hours of 19 operation. They would get a standard. 20 I would suggest to you, since it's supposed 21 to be the primary business, it should be not less than 22 50 percent, which is the standard for most of the 23 Class E licenses, that we also set a -- similar to 24 most of the other ones -- that we set that they have Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 48 1 to have a number of dining areas. 2 One of the problems that we've seen here 3 that the police have reported to me is that when they 4 do see incidents on video or go to the establishment, 5 there aren't dining areas set up. All the tables and 6 chairs are pushed over to the wall and it's a -- it's 7 a -- it's a bar. It's drinking, it's dancing, which 8 is all well and good if you have to Class A license, 9 which we've suggested to the Gasthaus, but under the 10 standard hours that they have now. They are 11 apparently not interested in that. 12 So if the -- if the Gasthaus is not 13 interested in a Class A, I would suggest that we -- we 14 take a couple of steps. We could consider -- because 15 of the continued disorder, we could consider 16 shortening the hours of operation. We could -- we 17 could consider setting a percentage of gross revenue 18 from food of 50 percent or more. We could set a 19 minimum number of dining areas that have to be 20 maintained and, perhaps, to enforce that would take 21 some analysis. I don't have a number for you here. 22 This would come back with a further report. But those 23 are some of the things we can consider. 24 As to -- Mr. Muscarello is going to ask to Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 49 1 address you here shortly, and I'm sure he'll cover 2 many of these points and others, but as to his request 3 to reconsider the denial of the exterior sales permit, 4 that was denied back at your meeting in March, there 5 is no specific provision for reconsideration, but I -- 6 but to the extent you're considering it, I suggest you 7 not reconsider it. The reasons for the denial were 8 well-founded at the time. 9 There are several circumstances with this 10 establishment that I think make an exterior sales 11 permit problematic that were detailed at the last 12 hearing. I won't go through all of them again, but 13 some of them included the fact that -- that, under our 14 regulations for exterior sales permits, when the 15 exterior sales permit is to be issued for an area 16 that's on an adjacent public sidewalk or public 17 property -- which it would be in this instance since 18 they're proposing to use the street. They're not even 19 proposing to set up a cafe area in their own property 20 like a number of the other exterior sales permits 21 have -- that it must include the regular service of 22 food with any alcoholic liquor, and this is an 23 establishment that is not engaged in the regular 24 service of food. They have less than eight percent of Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 50 1 their -- their business is in the -- is the sale of 2 food. 3 Additionally, with -- we had reported to us 4 from the police department, based upon their prior 5 observations, that there were people -- when the 6 exterior sales area existed -- were people out there 7 without food and had drinks, were out there beyond the 8 hours that were authorized, and -- and so for all the 9 reasons I set forth in the May 6th letter, I think 10 that that denial was, in my opinion, appropriate and 11 should not be reconsidered today. 12 Finally, this issue of retaliation. 13 The -- I think this Commission and the City 14 and -- and myself, as the Commission's attorney, and 15 making recommendations for either prosecutions or -- 16 or proposals to deal with the issues that have been 17 going on here, have actually shown great patience with 18 this establishment. 19 They have, by far, more incidents, serious 20 incidents of fighting at this establishment than the 21 other establishments have had. They are not meeting 22 their -- their regulations. They have been invited to 23 apply for an alternative license classification, and 24 so I -- I -- I -- I categorically deny this Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 51 1 retaliation assertion and -- and, yet, as -- as untrue 2 as it is, it is perhaps somewhat predictable. 3 Retaliation is, of course, entirely 4 inappropriate, but the -- what is also inappropriate 5 is that an entity would file suits against the City 6 and attempt to use it as a shield to protect itself 7 from violations of its liquor license, and we can't 8 allow that, either. 9 So notwithstanding the fact that the 10 Gasthaus has filed other litigation and -- and that 11 litigation is to be dealt with separately and is not 12 to be considered in how we regulate their liquor 13 license, that would -- that is not something we have 14 done or will do. 15 Their prior litigation against the City has 16 been dismissed. The City has prevailed in the -- in 17 an earlier case. Their -- their case on the tower 18 case has been dismissed, but that's not particularly 19 relevant. 20 They continue to litigate us in other 21 forums. That's their right to do so, and we will 22 continue to defend the City's interests appropriately. 23 But as an independent consideration, and 24 with the responsibility to regulate their liquor Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 52 1 license, you also can't be intimidated by the fact 2 that they make the unfounded claim of retaliation. 3 We're here to enforce the ordinances and to provide 4 for order and public safety at this establishment, and 5 that's why I've come forward with these 6 recommendations today, and I'm happy to answer any of 7 your questions, and I imagine Mr. Muscarello would 8 like to address you, as well. 9 MAYOR KAPTAIN: A motion. 10 MEMBER SHAW: Don't we need a motion before 11 we discuss anything? 12 MAYOR KAPTAIN: We need a motion. 13 MR. COGLEY: You -- you -- you can -- you 14 can -- this is on for a discussion. There's no 15 particular action item so there doesn't have to be a 16 motion. 17 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Let me start out and let me 18 go first here. 19 MEMBER SHAW: All right. 20 MAYOR KAPTAIN: I want to make sure that 21 Mr. Muscarello and the Liquor Commission understand my 22 position here. 23 Never once have I made a connection between 24 any issues with the Gasthaus Zur Linde and the tower Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 53 1 building. It will not -- it has not happened in the 2 past; it will not happen tonight. 3 I see two issues here. One, percent of food 4 service of revenue and, one, the exterior sales 5 permit, and that's what I look at. 6 And, Mr. Muscarello, I'm going to warn you. 7 When you get your chance to speak, if you -- if you 8 accuse me of connecting those two, you and I are going 9 to go to scrappin' because I take that as a 10 personal offense to me. I do what my job is and I 11 follow what the law is and that's what I will do 12 tonight. 13 Mr. Shaw. 14 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. 15 Can I just invite him so we can actually see 16 him and talk with him at the table? Would that be 17 okay -- 18 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Sure. 19 MEMBER SHAW: -- if we invited him to the 20 table? 21 MR. MUSCARELLO: Yes. Sure. 22 MEMBER SHAW: That would be fine so we can 23 have a bright conversation. 24 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Pull up a chair next to the Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 54 1 Court Reporter, if you don't mind. 2 MR. MUSCARELLO: That would be great for me. 3 That way we can all chat. 4 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. Thank you. 5 I guess I just want to open with a question 6 to you. 7 First of all, just with everything that's 8 going on with Gasthaus or whatever, does your client 9 that you represent -- are they -- are they -- are they 10 proud of the business that's going on right there at 11 the -- the image that they're portraying to the 12 community? I mean, just at a macrolevel, are they 13 happy with what's kind of going on with that from a 14 business perspective? 15 MR. MUSCARELLO: I think that they've been 16 proud of the business that they've been operating 17 there since 1968. I think that lately there has been 18 a proliferation of bad press related to the Gasthaus. 19 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. 20 MR. MUSCARELLO: And I can assure you that 21 they're not happy with that. 22 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. So you feel a lot of 23 bad press is warranted or unwarranted at this point in 24 time? Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 55 1 MR. MUSCARELLO: We think some of it's 2 unwarranted. I think there's a recitation of 3 incidents which we've tried to explain, and there's 4 recitation of incidents that we don't think are 5 associated with the Gasthaus, and that continues to be 6 the case, so that has created a negative publicity 7 around the Gasthaus, yes. 8 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. I want to just touch on 9 the Class U piece. 10 When we met last -- 11 MR. MUSCARELLO: The -- the -- which class? 12 MEMBER SHAW: The Class U issue. 13 MR. MUSCARELLO: Okay. 14 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. We met last September; 15 correct? 16 MR. MUSCARELLO: Correct. 17 MEMBER SHAW: And you were found guilty -- 18 or not guilty at that point in time of a Class U 19 license. 20 MR. MUSCARELLO: Not guilty. Correct. 21 MEMBER SHAW: Correct. 22 And do you remember some of the words we 23 shared with you after, why we said, "Hey, you know 24 what? We can't really find -- you're not at fault for Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 56 1 the Class U." 2 Do you remember why we said that, the 3 reasoning we gave about that decision? 4 MR. MUSCARELLO: From my recollection -- and 5 I'd have to look back at the transcript -- my 6 recollection certainly was that we were complying with 7 the letter of the law. 8 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. Did you remember what 9 we shared with you, though, on -- let me help to 10 refresh your memory. 11 MR. MUSCARELLO: Okay. 12 MEMBER SHAW: We found you not -- we found 13 you not guilty on the Class U piece because we had 14 renewed you as a Class U with the data that showed 15 that you were truly 90 percent liquor and 10 percent 16 sales of food, and we felt like, you know, that's -- 17 that's not fair to just renew you, you know, a few 18 months prior to that and then slap you with an offense 19 that said, "Hey, you know, just based on one night's 20 worth of evidence, that you didn't meet that." 21 That -- if you go back to the transcript, 22 you will hear a couple of -- of Commissioners share 23 that information with you, and the request was, when 24 you renew your license the next round, that you choose Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 57 1 a different license type. 2 Does that ring a bell as far as the message 3 that was shared with you at that point in time? 4 MR. MUSCARELLO: I don't recall the 5 invitation to select another license type, but I would 6 have to review the transcript. 7 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. That -- that's what was 8 shared with you. 9 Fast-forwarding to this year's renewal 10 license -- okay? -- and this is -- the reason I'm 11 going through this is because I was a little bit 12 frustrated with the tone of your first letter. 13 If you -- if you get the transcript of the 14 Liquor Commission from this renewal period, we, again, 15 looked at the data and we said, "Hey, what happened? 16 They renewed with the same liquor license type again 17 that doesn't meet the percentages of food." 18 I mean, if you would have been 51 percent 19 alcohol or -- or, you know, even close to like a 20 balance to show like food is a part of the business, 21 that the restaurant is a part of the business, you 22 know, I could see something, but it wasn't there, so 23 when we -- when we went to the renewal process, we 24 said, "Well, should we deny them and close their Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 58 1 business down on the night of the renewal?" because we 2 could have. We could have done that based on the time 3 when the renewal happened and when your liquor license 4 expired. That was the only chance, so if we didn't 5 renew you that night, that was it. Your license was 6 going to be revoked and you were going to have to 7 close down. 8 Okay. That night we said, "You know what? 9 It feels harsh. We've had -- we've had disagreements 10 in the past but it still feels harsh even then," so we 11 renewed it, and then we said, you know, "Hey, Bill, 12 could you follow up? We've got to address this. This 13 isn't right. We've talked about this in the past. It 14 somehow got missed." 15 You know, I don't know who -- you know, if 16 the folks that are renewing licenses were a part of 17 the -- you know, the hearing last year or not, but we 18 said, "Let's come back to that." 19 So that's what -- that's the back story, so 20 that's what gets us to here today. 21 MR. MUSCARELLO: Okay. 22 MEMBER SHAW: And so that's why, you know, 23 it feels like really almost disingenuous when you're 24 saying, you know, that "These guys are picking on me." Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 59 1 We're trying to keep your business going. 2 With all the things going on, we're not trying to 3 close you down. That's not -- that wasn't our -- our 4 idea. 5 If we wanted to close you down, we would 6 have denied you that night and we would have been 7 done. It would have been a very clean cut. "You 8 don't meet the criteria in the Class U. You're done. 9 That's it." 10 We didn't do that and so that's why I get in 11 the letter -- and maybe you didn't know the back 12 story. I'll give you that. Okay? But that's where I 13 kind of -- that's why you probably feel a little bit 14 of an edge in the room tonight because everyone is 15 like, "Aw, come on," you know? 16 So my recommendation tonight will be to, for 17 sure, you know, push you to a different license type. 18 It sounds like we have a recommendation for an 19 A Class, but the other piece with the A is the 2:00 p.m., 20 and I won't budge on the 2:00 p.m. -- or the 2:00 a.m. 21 piece. That -- that's just something where, you know, 22 I'm sorry, you know, the Class U is defined at that. 23 The Class U -- there's a reason you're the 24 last Class U is because of some of the issues that Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 60 1 it's caused in the community and some of the issues 2 we've seen, so I just can't support, you know, the 3 3:00 a.m. piece. 4 You know, if the Class A meets your criteria 5 of what your business operations is according to, you 6 know, our Corporation Counsel, I can support the 7 Class A piece from just looking at that one issue in 8 and of itself. 9 Does that meet or does that work for your 10 business operations? I'm trying to meet you in the 11 middle here. 12 MR. MUSCARELLO: Yeah. Well, it's not my 13 business operation. 14 MEMBER SHAW: I'm sorry. The business 15 operation you represent. 16 MR. MUSCARELLO: Let me address a couple 17 things. 18 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. 19 MR. MUSCARELLO: One, first, it was stated 20 that -- at least your opinion is that we don't meet 21 the Class U requirement. 22 MEMBER SHAW: Correct. 23 MR. MUSCARELLO: I don't think that that's 24 an accurate reading of the Class U. I think that Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 61 1 Class U does not have any food-versus-sales 2 requirements. 3 It does say that the primary business is 4 both a restaurant with an integrated tavern, and the 5 City always seems to drop that -- 6 MEMBER SHAW: Yeah. 7 MR. MUSCARELLO: -- additional clause. I 8 think that was discussed at the public hearing and I 9 think there was some conversation at the Commission 10 about whether they would want to revisit that language 11 of the Class U. That part I do recall. 12 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. 13 MR. MUSCARELLO: But it's my understanding 14 they haven't revisited the requirements of the 15 Class U. 16 The Class U has six specific requirements. 17 We meet every single one of those specific factors. 18 That hasn't changed from last year to this year. 19 I would agree that the food-versus-liquor 20 sales are essentially similar. Food may have 21 increased a little bit, but it's essentially the same 22 percentages, so I'm not going to suggest it's 23 otherwise. 24 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 62 1 MR. MUSCARELLO: But we believe that we do 2 fit within the Class U. 3 We did say that we would consider changing 4 to a Class A, but we did ask that, you know, the hours 5 be the same as are currently in business. 6 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. 7 MR. MUSCARELLO: You know, other than the 8 discussion here tonight, I hadn't heard any response 9 to that. 10 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. 11 MR. MUSCARELLO: So, you know, that would be 12 our request and -- and I understand that was an 13 invitation by the Commission, and we're willing to 14 consider that invitation, but that was our request is, 15 we would consider A, but we would like it to be at the 16 same business hours that we presently operate. 17 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. I'll hold off making 18 any motions until later, but, you know, just so you 19 know where my head's at, the Class A with the 20 2:00 a.m. would certainly be -- that would be kind of 21 where I'm headed at. 22 To be honest with you, I understand you're a 23 lawyer and lawyers look at things differently, but if 24 you look at it from the common language, I disagree Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 63 1 like a hundred percent, that I don't know how you read 2 that and say, "Well, gosh. We're a -- we're a 3 restaurant with a tavern." 4 I -- I -- you're hard-stretched to pull me 5 along for that. 6 MR. MUSCARELLO: Well, I would -- I would 7 really just look at -- at the Elgin City Code and I 8 would point to the provisions that do require specific 9 percentage of food sales. Class U's does not. 10 If you had intended to do that, then it 11 would have been incorporated there, and that's how the 12 law looks at it so -- 13 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. And we -- and we can 14 even modify that to add a percentage if that would 15 make it clear for you, as well. 16 MR. MUSCARELLO: I'm not asking you to 17 modify anything but -- 18 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. Well, you seem to want 19 to seek some clarity on that because we have a 20 disagreement, I think, on how we interpret that, so I 21 think a motion, you know, in the future, we could 22 do -- you know, we could clarify that. 23 MR. MUSCARELLO: I'm just trying to explain 24 to you -- you say we're looking at it from a basically Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 64 1 complete opposite to you. 2 MEMBER SHAW: Yeah. 3 MR. MUSCARELLO: I'm trying to give you the 4 context with which we look at that. 5 MEMBER SHAW: Okay. Sounds good. 6 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Ms. Powell. 7 MEMBER POWELL: Thank you. 8 I'd like to go over a couple of the same 9 comments that Commissioner Shaw and the Chairperson 10 have made. 11 I'm very frustrated and very tired of the 12 incidents that have been occurring at the Gasthaus. 13 We have been more than patient with the Gasthaus, and 14 we -- we have -- we've closed down establishments in 15 this -- in this town that have had probably similar 16 incidents, probably even less than what Gasthaus has 17 right now. 18 For you to sit here and ask that we give you 19 a Class A license with a 3:00 a.m. time on it is 20 insulting. It's completely insulting. 21 If you look at the times where these 22 incidents are happening, they are well -- they are 23 after 2:00 a.m. They are between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m. 24 A 3:00 a.m. liquor license is a privilege, it is not Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 65 1 something that you are just given, and I'm all for 2 getting rid of it. You -- you -- you've proven that 3 you are not capable of handling it and I'm -- I'm 4 done. 5 I've talked to Corporation Counsel about 6 this. I urged him to move forward with action against 7 Gasthaus last year because it seemed like things were 8 already going down a bad path, and they continued, so 9 I'm not interested in hearing any excuses about, 10 "Yeah. We're interested in entertaining a Class A 11 license with a 3:00 a.m. close time." 12 I don't think anyone here at the table was 13 interested in that. Somebody's going to get killed 14 down there. 15 MR. MUSCARELLO: If I could just -- 16 MEMBER POWELL: I'm not finished. 17 MR. MUSCARELLO: Okay. 18 MEMBER POWELL: I'm not finished. 19 That's one. 20 But just to reiterate what the Mayor said, 21 in terms of re- -- retaliation, if you look at your 22 record, there's nothing to retaliate against. We are 23 going clearly on your record of police calls and 24 incidents at your facility, period. That's it. It's Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 66 1 insulting to all of us here as elected officials for 2 you to accuse us of retaliating against you for 3 whatever issues you have with the tower building. I 4 could care less. But it's insulting to everyone 5 sitting at this table for you to sit here and accuse 6 us of that. 7 MR. MUSCARELLO: If I could just respond to 8 the one. 9 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Muscarello. 10 MR. MUSCARELLO: Yes. 11 First of all, we didn't come here asking to 12 change to a Class A. That was an invitation from the 13 Commission so we were responding. 14 MEMBER POWELL: But you said -- you sat here 15 just now and said that "We'd be willing to consider 16 that only if it were a 3:00 a.m. license." 17 Did you not just say that? 18 MR. MUSCARELLO: I don't know if I used the 19 "only." 20 MEMBER POWELL: You said that. Don't -- 21 don't play semantics. You said that. 22 MR. MUSCARELLO: No. What I said, we would 23 consider it -- 24 MEMBER POWELL: You said that. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 67 1 MR. MUSCARELLO: -- yes. Yes. Yes. 2 MEMBER POWELL: You said that. 3 Okay. So let's not play games. I'm done. 4 I'm -- I'm very done. 5 MR. MUSCARELLO: Okay. I was just trying to 6 make a point that we -- 7 MEMBER POWELL: You're trying -- you're 8 trying to maneuver your way around using lawyer terms. 9 We are not stupid. You've already insulted 10 all of us by saying we're retaliating against you, and 11 the number of incidents that have been -- that have 12 occurred down at your property are completely 13 unacceptable, completely unacceptable. 14 MR. MUSCARELLO: Again, I just want to -- 15 like, it's not my property. 16 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Muscarello. 17 MR. MUSCARELLO: It's the Gasthaus property. 18 MEMBER POWELL: Which you are representing. 19 MR. MUSCARELLO: That I am representing, 20 absolutely -- okay? -- but it's not my property. 21 MEMBER POWELL: What have you done to -- 22 MR. MUSCARELLO: Well, I -- 23 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Ms. Powell, let him finish. 24 MR. MUSCARELLO: I'd be happy to address Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 68 1 that issue, as well as the so-called "incidents." 2 If -- I've gone through the police reports 3 of the so-called "incidents." Many of those incidents 4 have nothing to do with the Gasthaus. 5 There is incidents that occur outside, 6 fights that have occurred outside, where the police 7 report doesn't indicate anybody came from the Gasthaus 8 or had anything to do with the Gasthaus other than it 9 was in the general vicinity of the Gasthaus. 10 There was a huge fight, for example, that 11 occurred down the street that had nothing to do with 12 the Gasthaus. There was other incidences that are 13 similar. 14 In a couple of the incidents that are 15 alleged, the Gasthaus was not allowing somebody to 16 enter who had been a prior bad actor and who had been 17 banned under the work we had done with the City police 18 department, and so that person was denied. 19 That person got into a dispute with their 20 friend later on and got into a fight, but that had 21 nothing to do with the Gasthaus. 22 So I think, if you look at the actual 23 incidents and you go through the details, you'll find 24 that, with the exception, I think, of two that were Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 69 1 listed that did occur at the Gasthaus, the others did 2 not occur at the Gasthaus, and for most, if not all of 3 those, there is no indication in the police reports 4 that it had anything to do with the Gasthaus. 5 MEMBER POWELL: Well, I find that 6 interesting -- and the Corporation Counsel can correct 7 me if I'm wrong -- but weren't some of the same types 8 of incidents when we closed down Anthony's, all of the 9 incidents that we used to close down Anthony's bar, 10 all of those were not inside of the facility, some of 11 them were outside of the facility that spilled 12 outside, that spilled out in the parking lot and the 13 sidewalk or the street? So from a consistency 14 standpoint, we are treating them consistently the same 15 way that we treated Anthony's; correct? 16 MR. COGLEY: Yes, we are. 17 My recollection is consistent with the 18 Commissioner, that a number of those incidents spilled 19 out into the parking lot, on the sidewalk and those 20 kinds of thing. You're correct. 21 MEMBER POWELL: And the City was upheld in 22 the action that we took? 23 MR. COGLEY: That was -- well, we -- I think 24 we ended up -- there was a -- there were several -- Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 70 1 two different -- 2 MEMBER POWELL: We ended up suspending their 3 license. 4 MR. COGLEY: Suspending them and to revoke 5 their license. The revocation in that instance, I 6 think, was reduced, but they never reopened after that. 7 MEMBER POWELL: But we suspended their 8 license? 9 MR. COGLEY: Yes, we did. 10 MEMBER POWELL: That was the point I'm 11 making. 12 MR. COGLEY: Yes, we did. 13 MR. MUSCARELLO: I can't speak to the 14 incident at Anthony's. I'm not particularly aware of 15 what they are. 16 MEMBER POWELL: I know you're not but I'm 17 just giving you the parallel that we have treated 18 other -- other entities in town the exact same way so, 19 for consistency sake, we're not picking on you. We're 20 tired of you. 21 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Gavin, just -- Mr. Gavin 22 and then just a note for everyone. We're going to 23 call a halt to the discussion at 10 minutes until 24 6:00. We have a City Council meeting at 6:00 o'clock. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 71 1 Mr. Gavin. 2 MEMBER GAVIN: Okay. I want to echo what 3 Chairman Kaptain said about retaliation. 4 I got reelected to this Council a little 5 over two years ago. I have never heard of any issues 6 between the City of Elgin and Gasthaus. 7 And I also served in the '90s and used to 8 patronize the restaurant that was there, as many 9 Elginites did. That is not a restaurant anymore, not 10 like it was in the '90s. 11 And I think you would be -- common sense 12 would say you could at least admit you're not getting 13 the type of business crowd that was gotten back when 14 Fritz and Joanne owned it, but, besides that, it's 15 really -- you are adversarial in all of your dealings 16 with us, and we're not adversarial with you. We're 17 doing what we have to do on all liquor establishments 18 with equal justice. 19 And I also served two years in the '90s as a 20 Liquor Commissioner. I never saw anybody with the 21 attitude that you guys have approached us with, and 22 I -- the minute I heard the first time, "Oh, you're 23 retaliating" -- and it was in the press -- you want to 24 talk about negative press. You guys have dumped a ton Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 72 1 of it on the City, that we are retaliating, we want to 2 take your business away. 3 I never heard anything like that, not when 4 I was campaigning this time in -- in 2013, never. 5 Since I've been on this Council, there hasn't been 6 one discussion among any staff, senior staff 7 personnel, Council members, the Mayor, anybody, even 8 the janitors, saying that we want your property. 9 We don't want your property, seriously, but 10 you are blocking advancement downtown that could help 11 your business if you wanted it to. 12 45 people living -- or 45 units right there 13 next door to your restaurant, wouldn't that increase 14 your business or chances of securing more money and 15 revenue for your client? So why all this resistance? 16 I will never support letting you have a 17 3:00 o'clock license going forward based on what I've 18 been hearing, and it's not retaliation. It's just 19 doing business the right way. 20 If it happens between 2:00 and 3:00 and no 21 other business is open on that block, yes, we're going 22 to look at your client's establishment. 23 Where else are we going to look? In the 24 bank? Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 73 1 Thank you. 2 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Mr. Muscarello, I'd like to 3 give you a couple minutes. You have two issues before 4 you. One is the percentage of food, if you'd like to 5 try to defend that position to the Commission, and the 6 other is the exterior sales. Those are the two primary 7 issues. 8 We're going to cut the discussion short. I 9 at least want to get your opinion here tonight. The 10 Council can come back with -- the Commission can come 11 back at the next meeting and make a decision, but we'd 12 like to hear what you have to say. 13 MR. MUSCARELLO: With -- with regard to that 14 exterior sales permit, we did apply for an exterior 15 sales permit in the past. Those were always granted. 16 We were never expected to appear at a hearing and 17 answer for that. 18 We believe that we're qualified to receive 19 an exterior sales permit under the Ordinance. It was 20 applied for and then it was denied, and we don't think 21 that the denial was justified. 22 When I hear comments that, "Well, the 23 problem is between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m.," the exterior 24 sales closed at 11:00, so it's not -- there's no -- Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 74 1 there's no nexus there between the two, if that's even 2 the justification for denying it. 3 Second of all, you know, it's always been 4 granted in the past and suddenly, then, this year it 5 was not granted. 6 I understand there was some explanation of 7 that here tonight. That explanation wasn't really 8 provided in that much detail to the Gasthaus prior to 9 that because the Gasthaus was not at that meeting 10 where all that was discussed. Then that's why we 11 asked to reconsider the matter because we weren't 12 given the opportunity to discuss those facts as they 13 came up. 14 I don't know that we have enough time to get 15 through all that tonight. 16 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Probably not. 17 MR. MUSCARELLO: But it is certainly 18 something that we had asked to reconsider that denial. 19 Again, we believe we meet the requirements. 20 In the past it had been granted, and that we don't 21 believe that the justification for denying it is 22 consistent with the statute or the denial. 23 One other thing I'd like to address, and the 24 question was is, "Well, what has the Gasthaus done to Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 75 1 attempt to remedy the situations?" 2 Well, the Gasthaus has done a lot. It's met 3 with the City several times, both counsel for the City 4 as well as the police department. At the City's 5 recommendation, it changed the type of music that was 6 played. Rap is no longer played there. There was a 7 dress code implemented. There were certain 8 individuals who worked at the Gasthaus were let go, 9 and there were other procedures that were adopted. 10 Also, further pursuant to the discussion 11 with the police department, we've also adopted many 12 other things that they've suggested; for example, 13 changing from glass serving to plastic serving cups 14 after a certain time. We've adopted that. 15 The police department had recommended 16 implementing a -- a banning process, and they 17 introduced us to that concept, and we've been 18 exercising that, and we have a no-tolerance policy. 19 If anybody has an issue at the Gasthaus, 20 they are banned and they are not allowed back in. 21 It's not a two- or three-strike, it's a one-strike 22 policy, and we have done that and they have banned 23 quite a number of people. 24 In fact, we're out of -- well, excuse me. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 76 1 So that has occurred. 2 We have had discussion with the police 3 department about what occurs outside versus inside, 4 and, you know, as I've said, many of the incidents 5 that have occurred we don't believe are related to the 6 Gasthaus and the police reports don't indicate that 7 they were related to the Gasthaus. 8 Also, the Gasthaus has increased security 9 staff. Their busiest night is Thursday night. 10 They -- it has been for a while. They have increased 11 the staff two people on Thursday night to address that 12 issue. 13 So I'm not sure how much time we really 14 have, and I don't want to go over so -- 15 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Yeah. I'll give you 16 one more. Mr. Steffen has his hand up. I'll give you 17 another minute or two and then let Mr. Steffen make a 18 comment, and then I think we'll have to adjourn. 19 MEMBER STEFFEN: Well, I could take the rest 20 of the time and say I would support the comments made 21 by the other Commissioners, as I would, but I don't 22 want to do that, but I -- I did -- I did want to find 23 out a specific response from the Gasthaus and their 24 attorney. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 77 1 They specifically denied one of the 2 incidents that we have listed in our materials as 3 occurring at the Gasthaus or in the area of the 4 Gasthaus, and they -- they suggest that it happened at 5 the Afterset and involved the Afterset, so I just 6 wanted to get that point. 7 MR. COGLEY: That was -- that was -- that 8 was -- 9 MEMBER STEFFEN: The August 10th. 10 MR. COGLEY: That report was -- was included 11 in the batch reports I had. I noted that to you the 12 other day. That one item was included in error. 13 MR. STEFFEN: Okay. So that is -- that is 14 the one that shouldn't be there. Okay. 15 That was the one question. I just wanted to 16 get that point clarified. 17 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Mr. Muscarello, do 18 you want to wrap up? 19 MR. MUSCARELLO: Well, in short, I guess, we 20 would consider a A class. We would ask that it be to 21 3:00 a.m. I understand that there doesn't seem to be 22 a receptive indication to that -- 23 MAYOR KAPTAIN: It doesn't appear to be. 24 MR. MUSCARELLO: -- to that. Yeah. I think Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 78 1 that was a fair comment. 2 So we do ask for a rehearing or a 3 reconsideration of the exterior sales permit. We 4 believe we meet the requirements. We have the 5 equipment. We purchased the equipment. We have 6 operated in the past. It's not in the hours that the 7 Commission is expressing concern; and, thirdly, with 8 regards to the incidents -- I don't know if I covered 9 this one. I did cover that. 10 I think the third issue was the compliance 11 with the U Class. Again, we believe, if you read the 12 U Class, we are in compliance with the U Class. We 13 have been in compliance, and when you read the six -- 14 particularly the six factors, we meet every single 15 one of those factors, and that, you know, we -- we 16 don't think that we're in violation of that by any 17 means. 18 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Mr. Cogley, would you 19 like to wrap up. 20 MR. COGLEY: Just very briefly. 21 I would note, on the request for 22 reconsideration, Mr. Muscarello was notified of the 23 Commission's consideration of the application for an 24 exterior sales permit on May 6th at the Commission Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 79 1 meeting by a letter of May 1 that I sent to him. 2 There was a sufficient discussion and 3 consideration of relevant information at that time, 4 and I -- I don't believe there have been or there's -- 5 there are no circumstances here that's been raised or 6 a scenario that suggested that you should re-review 7 the information and -- and reconsider it any further, 8 so I suggest you not take -- I recommend you not take 9 action to reconsider that. 10 And on the -- the -- just quickly on the 11 issue of compliance, the -- the actual language of the 12 Class U says, "The intent of this license 13 classification is that the primary business conducted 14 on the premises to be licensed shall be the service of 15 meals in a restaurant that also has an integrated 16 tavern area." That's the one at issue, and I would 17 submit to you it's my opinion that they have not been 18 complying with that. 19 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. Real quick and then 20 it's going to be a motion to adjourn. 21 MEMBER DUNNE: They let the outside liquor 22 license expire and didn't have one last year. 23 MR. COGLEY: They did not have a license. 24 MEMBER DUNNE: So they had it for two years Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 80 1 and it lapsed, I believe, for two years and this was a 2 new application. 3 MR. COGLEY: I believe it lapsed for 4 one year. 5 MEMBER DUNNE: For one year. Okay. So it 6 had lapsed. All right. 7 Thank you. 8 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Okay. At this point, I 9 entertain a motion to adjourn. 10 MEMBER GAVIN: So moved. 11 MEMBER STEFFEN: Second. 12 MAYOR KAPTAIN: It's been moved and seconded 13 to adjourn. 14 Will the Clerk please call the roll. 15 MS. DEWIS: Commissioners Dunne. 16 MEMBER DUNNE: Yes. 17 MS. DEWIS: Gavin. 18 MEMBER GAVIN: Yes. 19 MS. DEWIS: Martinez? 20 MEMBER MARTINEZ: Yes. 21 MS. DEWIS: Powell. 22 MEMBER POWELL: Yes. 23 MS. DEWIS: Shaw. 24 MEMBER SHAW: Yes. Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 81 1 MS. DEWIS: Steffen. 2 MEMBER STEFFEN: Yes. 3 MS. DEWIS: Mayor Kaptain. 4 MAYOR KAPTAIN: Yes. We are adjourned. 5 (Off the record at 5:52 p.m.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 82 1 CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 2 3 I, Glenn L. Sonntag, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter No. 084-002034, CSR, RDR, CLVS, the officer 5 before whom the foregoing proceedings were taken, do 6 certify that the foregoing transcript is a true and 7 correct record of the proceedings, that said 8 proceedings were taken by me stenographically and 9 thereafter reduced to typewriting under my 10 supervision, and that I am neither counsel for, 11 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to this 12 case and have no interest, financial or otherwise, in 13 its outcome. 14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 15 hand this 12th day of August, 2015. 16 17 ________________________________ 18 Glenn L. Sonntag, CSR, RDR, CLVS 19 20 21 22 23 24 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 83 A able 9:1915:2021:1426:12 27:1832:636:9 37:13 absolute 12:1046:4 absolutely 67:20 accept 28:2334:4 acceptable 27:14 accepted 27:11 access 32:6 accessory 6:107:18,19 accommodate 18:6 accurate 19:760:24 accuse 53:866:2,5 Act 7:622:2 action 22:728:239:1252:15 65:669:2279:9 activities 43:13 actor 68:16 actual 68:2279:11 add 18:1823:2,18,1937:18 63:14 added 22:937:20 adding 9:11 addition 32:5 additional 6:1861:7 Additionally 50:3 additions 5:6 address 49:152:858:1260:16 67:2474:2376:11 adequate 22:18 adjacent 45:649:16 adjoining 45:5 adjourn 76:1879:2080:9,13 adjourned 81:4 adjournment 23:15 adjust 36:23 admit 71:12 adopt 18:19,23 adopted 75:9,11,14 advancement 72:10 adversarial 71:15,16 advertising 7:11 advise 21:5 advised 15:15,2236:18 Afterset 77:5,5 agenda 18:2321:322:2,5,9 23:10,1235:2440:1 aggravated 45:21 ago 24:625:331:1237:10 71:5 agree 36:1337:361:19 agreement 24:13,1725:9,14,16 33:2336:23 ahead 9:123:17 alcohol 6:227:1440:2441:5 43:647:1457:19 alcoholic 7:1249:22 allegations 42:1843:20 alleged 43:1068:15 alleys 45:8 allow 12:1223:136:251:8 allowed 32:334:2375:20 allowing 68:15 alter 18:6 alteration 31:23 alterations 32:4 altered 19:2431:21 alternative 18:1341:1846:21 50:23 amend 15:2216:421:1035:24 amended 14:1222:2134:5 amending 26:11 amendment 22:8 American 12:17 analysis 29:2430:1734:21 35:1148:21 analyzing 35:2 announcement 37:22 answer 11:1722:1735:1852:6 73:17 answered 8:18 answers 10:18 Anthony's 69:8,9,1570:14 anybody 68:771:2072:775:19 anymore 36:1071:9 apparently 15:14,1648:11 appear 73:1677:23 appears 15:6 applicable 31:439:3 applicant 7:215:2116:121:5 36:1637:1 applicants 34:18 application 6:2,8,13,148:114:9,12 15:21,22,2319:16 21:11,1922:824:6,11 24:1526:10,2228:13 28:1934:639:10 78:2380:2 applications 24:1234:18 applied 73:20 apply 15:416:220:2021:9 24:19,21,2239:18 43:9,2150:2373:14 applying Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 84 7:2,1142:3 appreciate 13:4 approached 71:21 approaching 46:1 appropriate 19:626:1534:1337:7 50:10 appropriately 51:22 approval 4:245:56:137:248:4 8:815:20,2316:4 17:1221:23 approve 16:7,11 approved 5:246:97:814:325:1 38:15,17 approximately 21:241:24 architect 20:5 architectural 27:828:9,21 area 6:217:239:1114:20 14:2231:1640:20 49:15,1950:677:3 79:16 areas 20:135:348:1,5,19 arguments 43:22 arrangements 30:11 asked 41:1674:11,18 asking 27:363:1666:11 assembly 31:13 assertion 51:1 assist 34:18 associated 55:5 assume 17:1 assumed 17:18 assure 54:20 attached 24:17 attachment 19:17 attempt 51:675:1 attitude 71:21 attorney 27:550:1476:24 August 25:1477:982:15 authority 29:14 authorize 44:3 authorized 50:8 available 23:5 Avenue 39:3 avoid 44:2247:2 Aw 59:15 aware 20:1541:670:14 a.m 7:15,1615:1,142:4 44:1946:14,15,15,16 46:1947:1,159:20 60:362:2064:19,23 64:23,2465:1166:16 73:2377:21 B back 17:822:2026:1429:13 31:1432:536:18,19 36:2337:1148:22 49:456:5,2158:18,19 59:1171:1373:10,11 75:20 background 34:19 bad 54:18,2365:868:16 balance 25:1834:1757:20 bank 72:24 banned 68:1775:20,22 banning 75:16 bar 30:1132:9,10,1147:5 48:769:9 based 15:1622:524:530:19 30:2440:2241:2 42:2050:456:19 58:272:17 basically 26:863:24 batch 77:11 battery 45:21 beer 6:17,19,207:1211:21 12:3 beginning 17:22 behavior 46:5,7 believe 12:1026:2135:16 42:2344:1,2145:14 45:1862:173:18 74:19,2176:578:4,11 79:480:1,3 believed 24:24 believes 42:6,12,14 bell 57:2 bending 34:2 best 29:8 beyond 50:7 big 9:211:22 Bill 18:426:2034:858:11 bit 11:157:1159:1361:21 blank 25:15 block 72:21 blocking 72:10 Bluff 14:10 bother 20:9 bottle 12:2 bottles 7:13 Boulevard 14:11 briefly 78:20 bright 53:23 bring 24:1532:14,14,1737:7 37:11 brings 38:24 brought 32:17,19 budge 59:20 building 17:319:2420:2426:8 26:927:1029:9,18 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 85 30:6,1731:2132:11 32:1333:10,11,12 35:1153:166:3 bulk 12:10 burden 33:15 busiest 76:9 business 6:312:113:314:10 15:316:2417:3 20:1025:19,2226:12 27:2333:6,1537:8 39:240:1841:343:1 43:5,644:1547:8,13 47:2150:154:10,14 54:1657:20,2158:1 59:160:5,10,13,14 61:362:5,1671:13 72:2,11,14,19,21 79:13 businesses 33:2 businessperson 34:2 buyer 15:4 B-2 7:10 B-3 6:4,157:24 C C 4:1 cafe 49:19 calculation 29:930:15 call 4:2,55:912:2213:10 23:13,1937:2346:11 70:2380:14 called 40:1343:4 calls 25:1365:23 campaigning 72:4 cans 7:13 capable 65:3 capacity 14:20 care 66:4 CAROL 3:7 carried 7:10 case 35:1351:17,17,1855:6 82:12 cases 28:23 categorically 50:24 cause 45:11 caused 60:1 caveat 12:21 ceiling 32:12 certain 6:1714:1939:12,14 43:1875:7,14 certainly 31:147:1656:662:20 74:17 CERTIFICATE 82:1 Certified 2:1382:3 certify 82:6 chair 53:24 Chairman 8:1771:3 Chairperson 64:9 chairs 48:6 chance 53:758:4 chances 72:14 change 21:1325:526:527:9 30:9,10,10,1236:12 37:4,566:12 changed 15:731:1861:1875:5 changes 32:20 changing 26:1,936:1646:22 62:375:13 characterize 44:13 chat 54:3 checks 34:19 Chicago 6:425:23 Chief 12:24 choose 56:24 chooses 44:2 circumstance 41:2 circumstances 35:1842:943:2149:9 79:5 City 1:32:43:136:914:10 18:18,1821:423:13 37:1942:1945:12 50:1351:5,15,1661:5 63:768:1769:21 70:2471:672:175:3 75:3 City's 45:1251:2275:4 civil 43:9 claim 52:2 clarified 77:16 clarify 47:7,1263:22 clarity 63:19 class 6:47:2414:11,12,23 15:8,12,15,22,2316:4 16:517:1018:23 19:2320:9,16,2021:9 21:13,1922:1135:7 36:1739:1840:11,13 41:11,22,2342:3,5 43:1246:1747:11,18 47:2348:8,1355:9,11 55:12,1856:1,13,14 59:8,19,22,23,2460:4 60:7,21,2461:1,11,15 61:1662:2,4,1963:9 64:1965:1066:12 77:2078:11,12,12 79:12 classes 18:11 classification 21:440:14,1741:19 50:2379:13 classifications 41:17 clause 61:7 clean 59:7 clear 43:563:15 clearly 65:23 Clerk 3:134:55:813:1021:5 37:2380:14 client 54:872:15 clientele Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 86 9:2310:11 clients 12:1614:6 client's 72:22 close 46:257:19,2458:7 59:3,565:1169:9 closed 64:1469:873:24 closely 36:13 closing 17:18,23,2425:13,15 CLVS 1:2482:4,18 code 31:1132:14,15,17,17 32:1944:2245:15 63:775:7 Cogley 3:126:6,78:10,15 14:14,1516:1217:10 17:14,2318:520:18 20:2121:10,1722:3 22:2023:824:925:8 27:728:8,15,1829:7 29:2230:8,2134:11 34:12,1635:1636:5 39:7,852:1369:16,23 70:4,9,1277:7,10 78:18,2079:2380:3 come 12:124:1434:2436:2 48:2252:558:18 59:1566:1173:10,10 comes 10:9,1431:20 coming 10:415:4 comment 24:1076:1878:1 commented 10:13 comments 30:1936:837:1664:9 73:2276:20 commercial 33:2 Commission 1:24:38:1511:1322:6 25:2029:1232:13 39:9,1640:642:17 43:10,1444:246:20 46:2150:1352:21 57:1461:962:13 66:1373:5,1078:7,24 Commissioner 26:2131:964:969:18 71:20 Commissioners 4:65:1013:1128:10 37:2456:2276:21 80:15 Commission's 35:1050:1478:23 Committee 18:1623:3,1137:18 common 34:362:2471:11 community 10:820:2454:1260:1 compete 11:2012:9,13,13 competition 11:2012:13 complaint 42:1343:1044:3 complete 64:1 completed 24:11,1625:1130:3 completely 64:2067:12,13 compliance 39:378:10,12,1379:11 complication 18:3 comply 18:920:831:435:8 39:1941:19 complying 15:1339:1340:1142:7 42:956:679:18 concept 43:875:17 concern 19:14,1520:1122:17 31:2078:7 concerns 24:433:739:12 condition 22:2223:425:4 conditional 6:107:78:21,2342:21 conditions 7:98:1,515:2416:5,8 21:2126:835:23 36:5 conduct 7:316:233:4,5 conducted 30:1740:1841:343:1 43:1347:979:13 conducting 27:2344:24 confer 30:21 confirm 31:1,2 conform 41:11 Congratulations 14:5 connecting 53:8 connection 52:23 consider 34:635:9,1942:3 46:2148:14,15,17,23 62:3,14,1566:15,23 77:20 consideration 14:1235:1047:6,7 51:2378:2379:3 considerations 46:20 considered 22:1051:12 considering 49:6 consistency 69:1370:19 consistent 41:1446:2469:17 74:22 consistently 69:14 consolidated 9:14 consolidating 9:18 consumption 6:16 contact 21:5 containers 6:20 context 64:4 contingent 16:2417:5 continue 51:20,22 continued 32:846:748:1565:8 continues 55:5 continuing 13:4 continuous 10:11 contract 24:18 Control 4:3 convenience-type 7:21 conversation 53:2361:9 converted 31:16 cooler 9:15,17 copy 40:1 Corporation Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 87 3:126:320:1437:9 60:665:569:6 correct 17:10,1435:2255:15 55:16,20,2160:22 69:6,15,2082:7 correction 5:6 correspond 39:16 Council 6:97:78:1014:417:8 18:15,18,1819:13 22:223:13,2225:1 36:337:1939:10 70:2471:472:5,7 73:10 Council's 18:1728:8 counsel 3:1220:1426:2037:9 60:665:569:675:3 82:10 couple 25:232:2442:1148:14 56:2260:1664:8 68:1473:3 couple-mile 12:6 course 40:651:3 Court 2:516:17,19,2154:1 cover 49:178:9 covered 78:8 create 17:818:19,21,22 created 36:2155:6 creating 26:1128:3 credit 12:21 criminal 43:7 criteria 59:860:4 crowd 47:371:13 CSR 1:2482:4,18 cups 75:13 current 42:9 currently 14:1715:1818:7,8 62:5 customers 10:1244:24 cut 59:773:8 D D 4:16:1 dancing 48:7 data 56:1457:15 date 17:23,2425:1543:11 43:13,18 dated 25:10 DAVID 3:2 day 15:277:1282:15 deadline 22:19 deal 36:1842:250:16 dealings 71:15 dealt 51:11 decide 28:11 decided 15:14 decision 56:373:11 declined 43:14 dedicated 12:19 defend 51:2273:5 defense 44:21 defined 45:559:22 definition 7:18 delay 17:1136:22 delays 21:23 denial 39:549:3,750:10 73:2174:18,22 denied 39:1049:459:668:18 73:2077:1 deny 50:2457:24 denying 74:2,21 department 12:2421:1,129:9,18 29:2030:1732:16,18 33:135:11,1145:13 50:468:1875:4,11,15 76:3 departments 20:24 describe 9:23 desire 23:22 detail 74:8 detailed 49:11 details 68:23 determine 35:541:18 determined 28:12 development 20:2442:22 DEWIS 3:134:6,8,10,12,14,16 4:18,20,225:10,12,14 5:16,18,20,2213:11 13:13,15,17,19,21,23 14:121:1236:1 37:2438:2,4,6,8,10 38:12,1480:15,17,19 80:21,2381:1,3 Dexter 2:5 difference 15:17 different 20:2328:1734:24 36:1739:1843:20,20 57:159:1770:1 differently 62:23 difficult 9:21 dining 14:2035:337:1148:1 48:5,19 Diplomate 2:14 direct 10:844:3 directed 36:1639:16 disagree 62:24 disagreement 63:20 disagreements 58:9 discontinued 46:5 discrepancy 21:4 discuss 34:743:852:1174:12 discussed 61:874:10 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 88 discussing 22:10 discussion 8:938:2439:4,1240:5 41:752:1462:8 70:2372:673:8 75:1076:279:2 disingenuous 58:23 dismissed 51:16,18 disorder 39:1544:745:1446:19 48:15 displaced 9:11,13 dispute 68:19 distance 10:3 doing 6:314:918:2226:3 35:1736:1939:2 71:1772:19 door 45:172:13 double 42:1643:7,22 downtown 72:10 drawing 29:4,13,2030:20,23 35:1338:20 drawings 27:828:24 dress 75:7 drinking 47:448:7 drinks 50:7 drop 61:5 due 42:15 dumped 71:24 Dunne 3:34:6,75:3,10,118:4 13:11,1219:1422:1 22:2323:1726:21 27:1531:7,833:4 34:937:2,3,2438:1 79:21,2480:5,15,16 Dunne's 22:17 E E 4:1,114:820:1626:24 47:11,18,23 ear 45:22 earlier 41:8,1242:1351:17 early 45:18 easy 18:20 echo 71:2 edge 59:14 eight 43:349:24 either 7:1250:1551:8 elected 66:1 Elgin 1:3,122:4,64:363:7 71:6 Elginites 71:9 eligible 7:58:2035:5 employed 82:11 ended 69:2470:2 enforce 48:2052:3 enforcement 45:12 engaged 49:23 engineer 20:5 enter 68:16 entertain 80:9 entertaining 65:10 entire 17:2 entirely 9:2051:3 entities 70:18 entity 46:1751:5 equal 71:18 equipment 78:5,5 erroneously 37:13 error 77:12 especially 26:1 essentially 61:20,21 establishment 14:1715:6,10,1229:1 30:1031:6,1445:7,10 45:2346:2,348:4 49:10,2350:18,20 52:472:22 establishments 34:2250:2164:14 71:17 estate 24:1825:1436:18 estopped 42:17 estoppel 43:23 evening 22:1347:5 event 7:521:22 everybody 10:9,14,15,1711:2,8 evidence 56:20 exact 25:232:10,11,1270:18 exactly 17:1824:2025:3 example 68:1075:12 excellent 12:17 exception 28:468:24 exceptions 44:19 exclusively 10:232:7 excuse 19:475:24 excuses 65:9 exercising 75:18 existed 50:6 existing 6:119:1418:1120:10 27:1028:2430:5 31:1734:22 exists 41:19 expect 11:22 expectation 13:3 expected 73:16 expire 79:22 expired 58:4 explain 55:363:23 explanation 74:6,7 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 89 expressing 78:7 extended 44:2047:5 extensive 34:19 extent 49:6 exterior 6:187:1119:1739:6 39:1149:3,10,14,15 49:2050:653:473:6 73:14,14,19,2378:3 78:24 extra 9:13 E-1 26:24 E-3 14:11,1715:8,15,17,18 15:1918:1119:8 24:20,2225:135:6 F F 3:938:24 face 18:921:18 facility 22:1826:4,1628:16,17 65:2469:10,11 fact 15:1624:528:1341:12 45:349:1351:952:1 75:24 factors 61:1778:14,15 facts 74:12 fair 47:1656:1778:1 fairness 24:10 family 11:625:22 family-owned 10:512:18 far 18:1335:150:1957:2 Fast-forwarding 57:9 fault 55:24 fee 15:17 feel 11:16,2427:20,2228:1 34:1254:2259:13 feels 58:9,10,23 fees 8:2 felt 11:356:16 fight 45:2068:10,20 fighting 39:1544:7,2445:14,22 50:20 fights 68:6 figures 40:2241:13 file 51:5 filed 51:10 filing 44:3 fill 24:14 finally 34:750:12 financial 82:12 find 9:1943:1555:2468:23 69:576:22 fine 8:2053:22 finish 67:23 finished 65:16,18 fire 21:129:20,2132:18 33:1,535:11 first 6:124:740:1042:2,2 52:1854:757:12 60:1966:1171:22 fit 62:2 floor 7:239:1711:2414:22 17:19,2118:619:15 19:1925:2,631:21 32:1135:2137:16 fly 24:1 folks 9:2458:16 follow 29:1630:1836:12 53:1158:12 following 6:1312:1915:225:19 34:339:1146:15 follows 6:12 food 6:2,38:1312:4,840:23 43:447:1448:18 49:22,2450:2,753:3 56:1657:17,2061:20 63:973:4 Foods 6:2,810:5 food-versus-liquor 61:19 food-versus-sales 61:1 foregoing 82:5,6 form 36:11 formal 28:2429:13 forth 12:2050:9 forums 51:21 forward 23:236:352:565:6 72:17 found 43:1755:1756:12,12 four 31:12 Frank 10:8,1312:16 frankly 35:1 Friday 7:1515:118:146:14 friend 68:20 Fritz 71:14 front 36:2145:1 frustrated 57:1264:11 function 25:20 further 6:2111:1213:737:16 39:1248:2275:10 79:7 future 27:2443:1963:21 G G 4:1 games 67:3 gaming 7:3,3,68:1916:2,3 garden 26:13 Gasthaus 39:1,2,10,13,17,19 40:10,2241:5,10,15 41:19,2142:3,6,7,16 44:14,1546:1647:10 48:9,1251:1052:24 54:8,1855:5,764:12 64:13,1665:767:17 68:4,7,8,9,12,15,21 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 90 69:1,2,471:674:8,9 74:2475:2,8,1976:6 76:7,8,2377:3,4 Gasthaus's 42:21 gathers 47:4 Gavin 3:44:8,95:12,138:6 8:16,179:613:13,14 16:9,22,2317:4,7,11 17:1518:219:4,10 23:23,2425:1727:3,5 28:632:23,2433:6,20 33:2438:2,370:21,21 71:1,280:10,17,18 general 68:9 getting 65:271:12 give 17:1219:759:1264:3 64:1873:376:15,16 given 15:9,922:1265:1 74:12 giving 70:17 glad 23:24 glass 75:13 Glenn 1:242:1382:3,18 go 9:112:717:820:22 26:1229:13,1933:6 34:20,2036:948:4 49:1252:1853:9 56:2164:868:23 75:876:14 goes 47:4 going 8:249:1611:2219:20 19:2222:724:2,5 26:4,1927:1736:16 36:2237:448:24 50:1753:6,854:8,10 54:1357:1158:6,6 59:1,261:2265:8,13 65:2370:2272:17,21 72:2373:879:20 good 25:2434:148:864:5 gosh 63:2 gotten 71:13 granted 73:1574:4,5,20 granting 6:10 great 50:1754:2 groceries 12:2 grocery 7:2110:612:12 gross 14:2140:2341:148:17 Grove 39:2 guess 25:1754:577:19 guilty 43:15,1755:17,18,20 56:13 guys 27:658:2471:21,24 H hairs 8:24 HALL 2:4 halt 70:23 hand 76:1682:15 handling 65:3 handwritten 34:23 happen 53:2 happened 31:2453:157:1558:3 77:4 happening 44:1464:22 happens 28:272:20 happy 11:1752:654:13,21 67:24 hard-stretched 63:4 harsh 58:9,10 headed 62:21 head's 62:19 Health 32:16 hear 23:2456:2273:12,22 heard 24:762:871:5,2272:3 hearing 2:15:86:113:914:8 43:1449:1258:17 61:865:972:18 73:16 hearings 41:8 held 2:133:23 help 56:972:10 hereunto 82:14 Hey 34:1455:2356:19 57:1558:11 he'll 49:1 hold 62:17 holds 46:17 home 10:413:2 honest 62:22 honestly 11:22 hoops 33:16 hope 29:8 hours 7:1414:2322:1244:20 45:1946:9,11,13,22 46:2347:5,1848:10 48:1650:862:4,16 78:6 huge 68:10 hundred 63:1 I idea 59:4 illegally 42:20 Illinois 1:122:620:6 image 54:11 imagine 52:7 immediately 44:8 impact 9:2 implemented 75:7 implementing 75:16 impressed 10:2211:9 improvements 27:11 inappropriate 51:4,4 incidences 68:12 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 91 incident 45:18,23,2470:14 incidentally 44:17 incidents 44:1845:1346:348:4 50:19,2055:3,464:12 64:16,2265:2467:11 68:1,3,3,5,14,2369:8 69:9,1876:477:2 78:8 include 49:21 included 6:147:8,940:149:13 77:10,12 includes 45:5 including 6:1839:3,1745:7 incorporated 14:939:163:11 increase 72:13 increased 61:2176:8,10 independent 51:23 indicate 21:868:776:6 indicated 15:1116:1 indicates 41:1042:2 indication 69:377:22 individual 45:21 individuals 75:8 information 35:441:9,2056:23 79:3,7 initial 26:2327:128:2,20 Inn 14:10,1616:14 inside 33:1069:1076:3 inspected 33:3 inspection 29:2330:14,2331:3 33:5 inspections 30:234:20 inspects 33:1 installment 25:14 instance 23:949:1770:5 instances 39:1444:647:2 insufficient 35:14 insulted 67:9 insulting 64:20,2066:1,4 integrated 40:2061:479:15 intend 16:1 intended 63:10 intent 40:1679:12 intention 21:8 interest 82:12 interested 48:11,1365:9,10,13 interesting 14:1669:6 interests 51:22 interpret 63:20 intimidated 52:1 introduced 75:17 invest 33:17 invested 33:17 invitation 57:562:13,1466:12 invite 53:15 invited 50:2253:19 involved 25:2377:5 involves 36:20 issue 21:622:1123:1230:13 41:642:244:450:12 55:1260:768:1 75:1976:1278:10 79:11,16 issued 15:1230:1531:10 35:1237:10,10,12 49:15 issues 39:1,17,2244:550:16 52:2453:359:24 60:166:371:573:3,7 issuing 17:135:2 item 6:1,114:838:2452:15 77:12 items 12:1225:12 J Jack 8:12 janitors 72:8 jeopardy 42:1643:7,22 Joanne 71:14 job 1:2253:10 Joe 10:16 JOHN 3:9 Johnson 30:22 July 1:7,1318:14,15,24 22:2135:2436:4,6 37:1745:19 jump 26:1933:16 June 5:125:1039:2440:3 justice 71:18 justification 74:2,21 justified 73:21 K Kaptain 3:24:2,22,235:4,8,22 5:238:7,149:810:20 11:12,1513:6,914:1 14:2,5,816:10,16,22 18:2419:2,9,1120:12 22:1623:1,16,21 26:1527:1328:12,16 29:6,1530:431:7 32:2334:1035:15,20 36:2,737:2,1538:14 38:15,2252:9,12,17 52:2053:18,2464:6 66:967:16,2370:21 71:373:274:16 76:1577:17,2378:18 79:1980:8,1281:3,4 keep 59:1 killed 65:13 Kim 21:11 KIMBERLY 3:13 kind 9:1810:7,2211:6,8 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 92 12:1722:1624:1 36:1254:1359:13 62:20 kinds 69:20 knew 9:610:2411:3 knife 45:22 know 10:3,9,14,1611:17 12:1419:322:12 25:20,2126:729:23 29:23,2430:6,7,24 31:1832:335:22 36:2137:639:20 41:547:455:23 56:16,17,1957:19,22 58:8,11,15,15,15,17 58:22,2459:11,15,17 59:21,2260:2,4,6 62:4,7,11,18,1963:1 63:21,2266:1870:16 74:3,1476:478:8,15 knows 10:17 Kozar 8:12,12,159:5,1210:2 11:11,1714:4,7 L L 1:242:1382:3,18 lacerated 45:22 laid 18:7 language 26:2136:1261:10 62:2479:11 lapsed 80:1,3,6 large 12:618:8 largely 8:22 late 44:2047:2 lately 54:17 law 25:1945:1153:1156:7 63:12 lawyer 62:2367:8 lawyers 62:23 layout 15:6 leave 26:20 legal 34:8 letter 39:2040:2,8,2141:16 41:2144:9,1050:9 56:757:1259:11 79:1 letting 72:16 let's 58:1867:3 Liability 6:3 license 6:5,13,157:3,48:1,23 14:11,13,17,19,24 15:5,8,13,1716:2,5 17:1,6,9,13,1819:20 19:21,2320:11,16 26:12,2327:128:2,3 28:14,17,20,2029:2 35:3,636:17,2137:9 39:4,14,1940:11,13 40:14,1741:17,18,23 41:2342:1346:9,11 46:13,16,2347:1,11 48:850:2351:7,13 52:155:1956:24 57:1,5,10,1658:3,5 59:1764:19,2465:11 66:1670:3,5,872:17 79:12,22,23 licensed 20:540:1844:2345:3 45:4,779:14 licensee 16:443:1744:2145:9 licensees 47:18 licensee's 39:4 licenses 18:1137:13,1446:12 46:2447:12,2358:16 limit 18:10 limitations 6:18,21 limited 6:2,197:15,2145:7 limits 6:18 Linde 39:1,1052:24 liquor 1:24:36:5,11,12,15 7:12,198:229:11 14:11,13,2417:1,6 22:625:1935:2,10 39:3,9,14,1940:11,13 41:1842:13,1743:10 44:2245:1546:9,11 46:13,2349:2251:7 51:12,2452:2156:15 57:14,1658:364:24 71:17,2079:21 listed 44:969:177:2 litigate 51:20 litigated 42:13 litigation 51:10,11,15 little 11:136:2457:1159:13 61:2171:4 living 72:12 loads 27:1830:931:10 local 1:29:2410:1,2 located 6:414:10 location 2:1 long 35:18 longer 12:2315:875:6 look 27:1833:736:1137:9 53:556:562:23,24 63:764:4,2165:21 68:2272:22,23 looked 11:557:15 looking 11:2012:931:15,19 60:763:24 looks 63:12 losing 11:24 lot 9:24,2410:154:22 69:12,1975:2 lots 45:8 lower 15:16 M macrolevel 54:12 maintain 44:2345:10 maintained 48:20 major 33:10 making 50:1562:1770:11 maneuver 67:8 Maple 16:15,18,18,20,2017:2 17:5,17,2419:124:4 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 93 24:1930:232:3 33:19,2238:21 March 7:849:4 marked 19:17 market 10:8 Martinez 3:54:1010:20,21 13:15,1630:4,538:4 38:580:19,20 Martinez's 31:9 material 8:19 materials 6:147:88:315:5,11 16:620:3,2121:3 24:13,1829:1131:15 31:2440:277:2 matter 36:1542:1274:11 matters 40:4,643:9 maximum 6:24 Mayor 3:24:2,22,235:4,8,22 5:236:78:7,149:8 10:2011:12,1513:6,9 14:1,2,5,8,1516:10 16:16,2218:2419:2,9 19:1120:1222:16 23:1,16,18,2126:15 27:1328:12,1629:6 29:1530:431:7 32:2334:1035:15,20 36:2,737:2,1538:14 38:15,2239:852:9,12 52:17,2053:18,24 64:665:2066:9 67:16,2370:2172:7 73:274:1676:15 77:17,2378:1879:19 80:8,1281:3,4 meals 40:15,1941:443:2 47:1079:15 mean 9:2319:2035:943:16 47:1254:1257:18 means 78:17 meant 47:8 meet 20:2,1622:1947:15 56:2057:1759:8 60:9,10,2061:17 74:1978:4,14 meeting 1:7,114:35:118:14,15 18:16,18,19,21,22 19:1322:6,1323:4,11 23:13,19,19,2036:20 37:18,1939:949:4 50:2170:2473:11 74:979:1 Meetings 22:1 meets 60:4 Member 3:3,4,5,6,7,8,94:7,9,13 4:17,19,215:2,3,11 5:13,15,17,19,218:4 8:6,179:6,10,22 10:19,2113:12,14,16 13:18,20,22,2416:7,9 16:2317:4,7,11,15 18:219:4,10,1420:13 20:1921:7,1422:1,23 23:17,2425:1726:18 27:3,4,5,1528:6 29:1630:5,1831:8 32:2433:4,6,20,24 34:936:837:338:1,3 38:5,7,9,11,1352:10 52:1953:14,19,22 54:4,19,2255:8,12,14 55:17,2156:8,1257:7 58:2260:14,18,22 61:6,12,2462:6,10,17 63:13,1864:2,5,7 65:16,1866:14,20,24 67:2,7,18,2169:5,21 70:2,7,10,1671:2 76:1977:979:21,24 80:5,10,11,16,18,20 80:22,2481:2 members 40:772:7 memorandum 15:2436:6 memory 35:2256:10 mentioned 8:19 merit 43:23 message 57:2 met 55:10,1475:2 middle 60:11 mind 54:1 minimum 48:19 minute 71:2276:17 minutes 4:2470:2373:3 miscellaneous 37:8 missed 58:14 misstatement 44:11 misunderstanding 47:16 modify 63:14,17 Monday 7:15 money 12:1072:14 month 18:1 months 24:656:18 morning 44:1645:1946:15 motion 5:2414:334:4,8,9,10 35:20,2137:15,17 38:1552:9,10,12,16 63:2179:2080:9 motions 62:18 move 8:416:722:1623:1 30:11,1137:1765:6 moved 5:2,48:716:1018:1 80:10,12 moving 22:8 Muscarello 39:21,2340:241:16 42:1144:1148:24 52:7,2153:6,2154:2 54:15,2055:1,11,13 55:16,2056:4,1157:4 58:2160:12,16,19,23 61:7,1362:1,7,11 63:6,16,2364:365:15 65:1766:7,9,10,18,22 67:1,5,14,16,17,19,22 67:2470:1373:2,13 74:1777:17,19,24 78:22 Muscarello's 42:1 music 75:5 N N 4:1 name 10:1016:16 nearly 24:633:19 necessary 6:1234:6 need Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 94 18:1221:10,2222:12 24:2126:730:12 35:3,537:4,4,543:8 52:10,12 needed 20:20 negative 55:671:24 neighborhood 9:311:4,725:2344:16 neighborhoods 26:2 neither 82:10 never 10:2322:252:2370:6 71:5,2072:3,4,16 73:16 new 17:8,10,2119:20,21,23 20:1122:18,2223:4 26:11,1627:828:3,9 28:13,2029:1,2,22 30:13,13,1431:5,5 38:1980:2 nexus 74:1 nice 26:13 niche 10:8 night 22:644:2046:14,14 47:3,458:1,5,859:6 76:9,9,11 night's 56:19 North 39:2 note 15:6,1121:729:4 70:2278:21 noted 21:340:2141:2144:10 77:11 notice 18:2123:11,1237:19 44:17 noticed 23:6 notification 21:8 notified 20:17,2078:22 notwithstanding 51:9 no-tolerance 75:18 nuisance 45:11,17 number 35:444:646:248:1,19 48:2149:2067:11 69:1875:23 O O 4:1 objection 42:21 objective 47:14 observations 50:5 obtaining 29:1 obvious 34:1 obviously 20:229:14 occasion 22:4 occupancy 6:2427:1829:9,19,22 30:6,9,13,1531:1,5,9 31:1035:1237:10 occur 68:569:1,2 occurred 39:1544:7,1967:12 68:6,1176:1,5 occurring 46:7,10,1964:1277:3 occurs 76:3 offense 53:1056:18 officer 82:4 officials 66:1 Oh 22:371:22 okay 8:149:7,8,2210:20 11:1513:6,917:7 19:123:2124:925:5 27:1329:635:20 36:7,1437:2,1538:24 53:1754:4,19,2255:8 55:13,1456:8,1157:7 57:1058:8,2159:12 61:12,2462:6,10,17 63:13,1864:565:17 67:3,5,2071:277:13 77:14,1778:1879:19 80:5,8 Olde 14:9,10,1616:13 once 20:1533:236:952:23 ones 35:147:24 one-item 18:22 one-strike 75:21 ongoing 43:2444:146:18 open 22:142:444:1554:5 72:21 operate 62:16 operated 78:6 operating 54:16 operation 7:1446:2247:1948:16 60:13,15 operations 15:926:642:1060:5 60:10 opinion 41:243:5,2350:10 60:2073:979:17 opportunity 12:974:12 opposed 8:22,23 opposite 64:1 opposition 9:2,4 option 19:11 order 4:422:1823:1445:10 52:4 ordinance 6:107:2218:12,20,23 21:2322:534:17 43:18,2273:19 ordinances 31:535:952:3 ordnance 23:14 original 6:16 outcome 82:13 outlined 8:236:6 outside 32:644:8,8,1445:1,14 45:2368:5,669:11,12 76:379:21 overall 44:13 owned 11:771:14 owner 17:2019:2129:230:13 31:533:15 owners 12:8 ownership 26:927:1032:2133:17 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 95 o'clock 70:2472:17 P P 4:1 package 6:11,15,167:5,18 packaged 7:12 Pages 1:23 parallel 70:17 parking 45:869:12,19 part 31:1137:1857:20,21 58:1661:11 partial 24:14 particular 52:15 particularly 22:751:1870:1478:14 parties 82:11 parts 22:9 pass 9:614:6 path 65:8 patience 50:17 patient 64:13 patronize 71:8 patrons 45:6 Patsy 16:18,2024:3 pattern 41:1446:7 payment 8:2 peace 44:2345:4,10 people 10:3,412:1,1724:14 31:22,2350:5,672:12 75:2376:11 percent 7:229:17,2011:23 14:2140:2341:1 43:347:2248:18 49:2453:356:15,15 57:1863:1 percentage 14:2147:1348:1763:9 63:1473:4 percentages 57:1761:22 period 57:1465:24 permanent 35:12 permit 22:2231:1733:1139:6 39:1142:2149:3,11 49:1553:573:14,15 73:1978:3,24 permits 31:1033:1249:14,20 person 68:18,19 personal 53:10 personally 30:20 personnel 72:7 persons 7:114:20 perspective 54:14 Pete 10:16 petition 16:11 Petitioner 8:11 photo 19:16,18 phrases 40:14 picking 58:2470:19 piece 55:956:1359:19,21 60:3,7 piecemeal 24:12 place 11:426:13 places 12:731:13 plan 17:19,2119:15,19,23 20:1,3,725:2,627:19 31:21 planned 42:22 plans 18:622:18,20,2123:5 26:1528:5,10,21 34:13,23 plastic 75:13 play 66:2167:3 played 75:6,6 please 4:55:913:1014:5 16:1737:2380:14 pleasure 18:1728:8 point 24:2425:828:2232:15 43:1554:2355:18 57:363:867:670:10 77:6,1680:8 pointed 41:15 points 42:1249:2 police 12:22,24,2445:1248:3 50:465:2368:2,6,17 69:375:4,11,1576:2 76:6 policy 75:18,22 Poole 17:2025:232:14 Pool's 32:8 poorer 35:1 popular 26:13 portion 23:3 portraying 54:11 position 52:2273:5 posted 30:16 Powell 3:64:12,135:14,15 13:17,1816:720:12 20:13,1921:7,1438:6 38:764:6,765:16,18 66:14,20,2467:2,7,18 67:21,2369:5,2170:2 70:7,10,1680:21,22 practical 36:10,1537:1 practice 20:528:19,2329:3 36:13 precluded 43:19 predictable 51:2 premises 6:16,247:4,2315:7 16:318:726:2427:1 29:1930:1631:4 39:1640:1841:3 43:144:8,9,2345:3,4 45:1447:979:14 prepare 21:2 prepared 20:4 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 96 present 3:1,114:722:2025:12 presented 27:12 presently 62:16 preservation 45:4 press 54:18,2371:23,24 presumption 45:17 presuppose 22:6 pretty 25:2434:1 prevailed 51:16 previous 4:2417:2037:9 previously 41:7 Prigge 4:14 primary 40:1741:342:2443:5 43:647:8,2161:3 73:679:13 principal 7:20 print 32:8 prior 41:2243:1050:451:15 56:1868:1674:8 privilege 64:24 probably 31:12,1359:1364:15 64:1674:16 problem 17:15,1722:2345:12 73:23 problematic 46:1849:11 problems 15:1448:2 procedural 42:15 procedure 18:20 procedures 75:9 proceed 23:9 proceedings 82:5,7,8 process 17:1124:1634:19 42:1557:2375:16 processing 34:18 products 9:10,14 profit-maker 11:23 prohibited 6:2142:16 prohibiting 7:11 proliferation 54:18 proper 31:3 properly 20:828:5 property 6:2212:2215:330:1 45:649:17,1967:12 67:15,17,2072:8,9 proposals 50:16 proposed 15:20 proposing 49:18,19 prosecutions 50:15 protect 51:6 proud 54:10,16 proven 65:2 provide 52:3 provided 25:1029:1031:16 41:17,2045:1974:8 provides 35:4 provision 40:1649:5 provisions 63:8 public 6:114:823:631:13 37:1945:6,1749:16 49:1652:461:8 publicity 55:6 pull 53:2463:4 purchase 24:13,1725:9,1533:23 purchased 78:5 purchases 12:5 purchasing 17:225:3 purely 7:4 purpose 7:20 purposes 35:2,17 pursuant 75:10 push 59:17 pushed 48:6 put 22:4,14 putting 33:14 p.m 1:147:16,1759:19,20 81:5 Q qualified 73:18 qualify 15:8,1919:8 quality 34:24 question 8:1810:1817:719:16 20:1426:2234:11 35:1954:574:24 77:15 questions 8:9,1411:12,1813:7 16:1229:1752:7 quick 32:2479:19 quickly 36:879:10 quite 34:2175:23 R R 4:1 radius 12:6,14 raise 39:1740:7 raised 40:842:1144:679:5 raising 39:2242:18 RAM 6:2,2,3,88:1310:5 12:4,8 Raoul 30:22 Rap 75:6 rare 22:4 Rauschenberger 3:74:16,175:16,17 13:19,2038:8,9 RDR 1:2482:4,18 read 26:2063:178:11,13 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 97 reading 60:24 ready 21:15 real 24:1825:1336:18 79:19 realize 9:1 really 9:12,2010:711:20 12:827:1931:18 32:140:443:855:24 58:2363:771:15 74:776:13 reapply 21:9 rearranging 9:19 reason 57:1059:23 reasoning 56:3 reasons 49:750:9 recall 6:957:461:11 receive 37:1439:2373:18 receptive 77:22 rechanging 21:18 recitation 55:2,4 recollection 56:4,669:17 recommend 15:20,2379:8 recommendation 19:736:359:16,18 75:5 recommendations 50:1552:6 recommended 75:15 recommending 7:2415:2116:3 reconsider 49:3,774:11,1879:7,9 reconsideration 39:549:578:3,22 reconsidered 50:11 record 17:2265:22,2381:5 82:7 records 31:14 redevelopment 42:22 reduced 70:682:9 reelected 71:4 referring 26:22 refresh 56:10 regard 41:1273:13 regarding 39:1 regards 78:8 Registered 2:14 regular 1:74:223:2049:21,23 regularly 40:16 regulate 51:12,24 regulation 47:8 regulations 7:1025:2139:4,14 40:1241:1142:8 43:1249:1450:22 rehearing 78:2 reiterate 65:20 related 54:1876:5,782:11 relevant 51:1979:3 relitigating 43:20 rely 29:19 remade 30:16 remains 32:9 remedy 75:1 remember 55:2256:2,8 reminded 11:6 rendering 29:831:1932:1 renderings 28:22 renew 56:17,2458:5 renewal 38:1957:9,14,2358:1 58:3 renewed 56:1457:1658:11 renewing 58:16 renovating 25:4 renovations 33:9,10 reopened 70:6 repeat 10:12 repeated 45:13 report 45:2048:2268:777:10 reported 1:2448:350:3 Reporter 2:14,1416:17,19,21 54:182:1,4 reports 68:269:376:677:11 represent 8:1340:23,2454:9 60:15 representation 27:20 representatives 8:1116:13 representing 9:467:18,19 request 39:549:256:2362:12 62:1478:21 requested 39:22 require 28:931:9,1133:11 63:8 required 15:419:1623:526:23 27:2,828:21 requirement 26:1660:21 requirements 14:1920:1626:10 34:1761:2,14,16 74:1978:4 requiring 8:228:4 residents 10:1,3 resistance 72:15 respect 40:7 respond 66:7 responded 42:6,2444:12 responding 66:13 response 4:11,155:711:1413:8 39:2342:144:13 62:876:23 responsibility Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 98 44:2245:946:5 51:24 rest 76:19 restaurant 14:1819:1040:14,19 42:843:246:24 47:10,11,1257:21 61:463:371:8,9 72:1379:15 result 32:12 retaliate 65:22 retaliating 42:2066:267:1071:23 72:1 retaliation 50:1251:1,352:2 65:2171:372:18 revenue 12:1148:1753:472:15 revenues 14:2140:2441:1 review 21:135:1041:9,16 57:6 reviewed 15:520:21,2221:3 reviews 21:2 revisit 61:10 revisited 61:14 revocation 70:5 revoke 70:4 revoked 58:6 re-review 79:6 RICHARD 3:3 rid 65:2 right 10:811:217:419:9 23:1628:1536:1 42:451:2152:19 54:1058:1364:17 72:12,1980:6 rights 42:15 ring 57:2 roll 4:55:913:1023:14 37:2380:14 room 9:1359:14 ROSE 3:5 rough 29:5 rough-drawn 32:8 round 56:24 routed 20:23 rules 12:2034:3 run 13:1,1,229:936:14,22 S S 4:1 safety 29:2133:5,752:4 sake 70:19 sale 7:12,1416:2425:14 41:543:647:9,13 50:1 sales 6:11,19,2339:6,11 40:23,2441:9,1343:4 43:449:3,10,14,15,20 50:653:456:16 61:2063:973:6,14,15 73:19,2478:3,24 Sally 10:16 sat 66:14 Saturday 7:1615:119:238:18 38:1846:14 saw 11:571:20 saying 44:2458:2467:1072:8 says 26:2331:1679:12 scale 27:16 scenario 79:6 scrappin 53:9 seal 20:4 seated 39:22 seating 30:10 seats 35:4 second 5:38:616:918:14,14 23:1244:574:3 80:11 seconded 5:48:816:1080:12 Secondly 43:7 securing 72:14 security 76:8 see 10:2318:225:427:17 30:2235:347:248:4 53:3,1557:22 seek 63:19 seen 48:260:2 select 57:5 selection 12:7 sells 11:21 semantics 66:21 senior 72:6 sense 34:371:11 sent 39:2079:1 separate 23:12 separately 51:11 September 55:14 serious 50:19 seriously 72:9 serve 14:20 served 40:15,1671:7,19 service 14:2340:1941:443:2 47:949:21,2453:4 79:14 serving 6:2075:13,13 set 9:1512:2047:23,24 48:5,1849:1950:9 82:14 sets 47:14 setting 48:17 severely 45:21 severity 46:3 share Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 99 shared 55:2356:957:3,8 Sharon 17:20 Shaw 3:84:18,195:2,18,19 9:9,10,2210:1913:21 13:2238:10,1152:10 52:1953:13,14,19,22 54:4,19,2255:8,12,14 55:17,2156:8,1257:7 58:2260:14,18,22 61:6,12,2462:6,10,17 63:13,1864:2,5,9 80:23,24 shield 51:6 ship 13:1,1,2 short 18:1873:877:19 shortening 48:16 Shorthand 2:1382:1,3 shortly 10:2149:1 show 57:20 showed 56:14 shown 50:17 sidewalk 45:149:1669:13,19 sidewalks 45:8 signage 6:19 similar 27:1241:1347:23 61:2064:1568:13 simply 34:344:23 single 6:207:1361:1778:14 sit 64:1866:5 sitting 66:5 situation 19:6 situations 75:1 six 19:12,1261:1678:13 78:14 six-pack 12:3 six-packs 6:19 sketch 27:16 sketches 27:11 slap 56:18 slightly 9:19 small 7:2010:512:1425:18 25:2333:15 sold 7:1315:3 solution 24:1 somebody 68:15 Somebody's 65:13 somewhat 51:2 Sonntag 1:242:1382:3,18 soon 11:2 sorry 16:1959:2260:14 sounds 19:2433:1859:1864:5 so-called 68:1,3 space 9:1811:24 speak 31:232:453:770:13 special 18:15,18,2123:2,11,13 23:19,20 specific 43:11,11,1249:561:16 61:1763:876:23 specifically 42:2477:1 spent 10:12 spilled 45:2369:11,12,18 splitting 8:24 staff 72:6,676:9,11 standard 14:2346:9,11,12,23 47:15,19,2248:10 standards 20:3 standpoint 69:14 start 16:2352:17 started 24:16 starts 47:6 state 16:1620:625:20 stated 7:220:331:2460:19 statement 11:16,19 statute 74:22 stay 42:4 staying 20:9 Steffen 3:94:20,215:20,21 13:23,2426:17,18 27:429:15,1630:18 36:838:12,1376:16 76:17,1977:9,13 80:1181:1,2 stenographically 82:8 steps 41:1048:14 stock 24:12,1725:9,1533:23 stopped 10:21 storage 20:132:7 store 6:2,117:5,219:1110:6 10:15,1711:6,712:18 storeroom 31:17 story 12:1758:1959:12 street 6:445:249:1868:11 69:13 streets 45:8 structural 32:20 stupid 67:9 subclasses 14:18 subject 6:177:48:1,415:24 16:5,721:2025:5 35:2342:16 submit 17:2179:17 submitted 17:19,2020:2,724:6 25:2,728:534:5 40:22 subordinate 7:19 subsequent 40:2 substantive 42:15 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 100 suddenly 74:4 sufficient 35:1979:2 suggest 38:1947:2048:1349:6 61:2277:479:8 suggested 35:742:1948:975:12 79:6 suggesting 15:10 suits 51:5 Sunday 7:1614:2446:13 supermarket 10:6 supervision 82:10 support 9:112:1513:425:18 33:1460:2,672:16 76:20 supposed 19:19,2347:20 sure 9:526:1927:249:1 52:2053:18,2159:17 76:13 surprised 10:24 survey 33:5 suspended 70:7 suspending 70:2,4 Suze 10:912:16 switched 41:23 T table 53:16,2065:1266:5 tables 30:1148:5 tack 26:10 take 12:4,11,1123:1428:4 28:633:1648:14,20 53:972:276:1979:8 79:8 taken 33:1241:1082:5,8 talk 36:953:1671:24 talked 11:158:1365:5 tavern 25:2340:2061:463:3 79:16 technically 19:21 tell 30:1931:1932:1 telling 26:5 terms 65:2167:8 TERRY 3:4 Thank 6:78:179:511:10,11 13:5,614:4,7,15 16:2120:1338:23 39:854:464:773:1 80:7 thing 37:669:2074:23 things 20:127:12,2232:24 36:10,1937:142:23 44:1448:2359:2 60:1762:2365:7 75:12 think 18:719:4,5,6,628:22 28:2333:2436:14 40:449:1050:9,13 54:15,1755:1,2,4 60:23,2461:8,963:20 63:2165:1268:22,24 69:2370:671:11 73:2076:1877:24 78:10,16 thinking 18:3 third 78:10 thirdly 78:7 thoughts 18:4 three 24:625:640:4 three-strike 75:21 Thursday 14:2476:9,11 Thursdays 46:13 tight 13:1,1,2 time 10:1319:2021:8,15 23:624:7,1925:1 31:1436:2243:11,14 43:1849:854:24 55:1857:358:2 64:1965:1171:22 72:474:1475:14 76:13,2079:3 times 10:1264:2175:3 timing-dependent 21:22 tired 64:1170:20 TISH 3:6 TOBY 3:8 today 12:1521:19,2427:24 35:1739:2150:11 52:658:20 told 24:19,2228:1 tomorrow 21:20 ton 71:24 tone 57:12 tonight 23:1837:2253:2,12 59:14,1662:873:9 74:7,15 totally 35:13 touch 55:8 tower 42:2251:1752:2466:3 town 64:1570:18 Towne 14:9,10,1616:13 transcript 56:5,2157:6,1382:6 transfer 28:2 treat 47:10,11,17 treated 69:1570:17 treating 69:14 treatment 47:17 trials 25:24 tribulations 26:1 tried 55:3 trouble 47:6 true 27:2033:282:6 truly 12:1856:15 try 18:634:1673:5 trying 25:1859:1,260:10 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 101 63:2364:367:5,7,8 turning 46:22 two 9:17,2011:2336:8 37:1,1,1040:844:18 53:3,868:2470:1 71:5,1973:3,674:1 75:2176:11,1779:24 80:1 two-by-eight 9:15,16 type 27:1731:2357:1,5,16 59:1771:1375:5 types 69:7 typewriting 82:9 typically 27:834:2346:10 U U 40:11,1341:11,2342:5 43:1246:1755:9,12 55:1856:1,13,1459:8 59:22,23,2460:21,24 61:1,11,15,1662:2 78:11,12,1279:12 Uh-huh 35:15 unable 32:14,17 unacceptable 67:13,13 understand 19:2224:252:2162:12 62:2274:677:21 understanding 25:2461:13 unfounded 52:2 unit 7:13 units 72:12 unlawfully 42:20 untrue 51:1 unwarranted 54:2355:2 upheld 69:21 urged 65:6 use 6:107:7,19,19,208:22 8:2326:432:6,8 42:2149:1851:6 user-friendly 36:24 utilized 6:2218:845:6 U's 63:9 V venture 27:15 versions 34:24 versus 47:1476:3 vicinity 68:9 video 7:3,3,68:1916:2,2 48:4 violate 43:19 violated 42:18 violating 43:11,18 violation 42:1444:1,245:15 78:16 violations 51:7 virtually 44:17 voicing 9:3 volunteer 34:14 vote 28:6 voted 8:21 W waiting 25:12 walked 10:2311:2,2 walking 10:3 walks 10:15,17 walk-ins 9:24 wall 48:6 want 9:1512:128:929:12 46:20,2152:2054:5 55:861:1063:18 67:1471:2,2372:1,8 72:973:976:14,22,22 77:18 wanted 10:2359:572:1177:6 77:15 warn 53:6 warranted 54:23 wasn't 9:2031:1357:2259:3 74:7 way 19:524:2327:2354:3 67:869:1570:18 72:19 Wednesday 1:13 week 18:120:18,19,2221:2 21:1638:18 weekend 46:16 weekends 46:10 weeks 19:12,1239:24 well-founded 49:8 went 11:830:1,20,2257:23 weren't 8:2069:774:11 West 6:4 we'll 4:237:19,2176:18 we're 17:218:2119:20,22 24:125:1726:3,5 27:1728:334:2,3 35:1737:352:359:1 59:262:1363:2,2,24 65:1067:1070:19,19 70:2271:16,1672:21 73:8,1875:2478:16 we've 27:2128:134:1,1 37:1248:2,955:3 58:9,9,12,1360:2 64:1475:11,14,17 whatsoever 27:17 WHEREOF 82:14 WILLIAM 3:12 willing 16:462:1366:15 wine 6:1711:2112:3 wish 40:7 wished 39:18 WITNESS 82:14 word 14:638:17 words 55:22 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 102 work 10:460:968:17 worked 75:8 working 24:1 worth 56:20 wouldn't 20:922:14,1430:7 72:13 wrap 77:1878:19 wrong 69:7 X x 1:5,8 Y Yeah 60:1261:664:265:10 76:1577:24 year 12:2333:245:1658:17 61:18,1865:774:4 79:2280:4,5 years 15:1225:3,631:12 32:1037:1041:12,22 71:5,1979:2480:1 year's 57:9 Z zero 32:22 zoning 6:137:22 Zur 39:1,1052:24 $ $1,540 15:18 $12,000 33:19 $660 15:18 0 084-002034 82:4 1 1 1:2333:1,879:1 1st 25:14 1:00 15:146:1447:1 10 7:2219:1626:2237:4 37:545:1646:1 56:1570:23 10th 5:177:9 10:00 7:16 107 32:10 11:00 73:24 12th 82:15 13th 39:2140:9 13-15 39:2 150 2:5 16th 23:737:20 18th 18:2422:19,2123:2 34:6,735:2436:3 37:17 1968 54:17 1984 32:5 2 2 8:2133:936:6 2nd 39:24 2:00 15:144:16,1946:8,15 46:15,1947:159:19 59:20,2062:2064:23 64:2372:2073:23 2010 41:22,24 2012 15:15 2013 72:4 2014 40:21,2441:1,6,9 2015 1:7,135:139:2182:15 26th 40:3 29th 25:10 3 3 14:2326:5 3rd 45:19 3:00 42:444:16,1946:8,16 46:1960:364:19,23 64:2465:1166:16 72:17,2073:2377:21 4 4:32 1:14 412 14:10 45 72:12,12 48 22:12 49 7:1 5 5:52 81:5 50 14:2147:2248:18 51 57:18 6 6th 6:97:850:978:24 6.06.145.D 45:5 6:00 70:24,24 60 14:20,2031:22,23 37:11 60120 1:122:6 7 7.5 40:23 7.58 40:23 725 6:4 75602 1:22 8 8 1:7,13 8-0 14:338:16 8:00 7:15,17 82 1:23 847 2:7 9 9:00 7:16 90 56:15 90s 32:2171:7,10,19 92.42 Meeting (Complete) Conducted on July 8, 2015 888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM PLANET DEPOS 103 41:1 931-6100 2:7