HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011 Design Review Subcommittee (2) Design Review Subcommittee
of the Elgin Heritage Commission
August 9, 2011
The meeting of the Design Review Subcommittee was called to order at 6:11 p.m., in the City
Council Chambers (Located on the 2"d floor of City Hall) by Chairman Stroud.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Betsy Couture, Pat Miller, Bill Ristow, John Roberson, Steve Stroud and John Wiedmeyer
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Bill Briska and Dennis Roxworthy
CITY STAFF PRESENT:
Sarosh Saher, Senior Planner; and Cindy Walden, DRS Secretary
RECOGNIZE OTHER PERSONS PRESENT:
None
PROPERTIES ON AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION:
Old Business
None
New Business
70 S Chapel Street— Replace front stairs
288-290 Villa Street— Replace 6 windows
17 N Chapel Street—Replace two garage doors, remove one
18 Warwick Place— Replace 6 windows
408 Fulton Street— Replace all windows
518 E Chicago Street— Install substitute fascia/soffit over wood
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Motion made by Committee Member Wiedmeyer to approve the minutes of June 14, 2011, as
amended by secretary (pg 4—motion made by Roxworthy).
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Roberson.
The motion passed 5-0.
Abstained: Ristow
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Design Review Subcommittee—August 9, 2011
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ITEMS TABLED:
70 S Chapel Street—Due to non-representation
288-290 Villa Street—Due to non-representation
NEW BUSINESS:
17 N Chapel Street— Replace two garage doors, remove one
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace two
garage doors, remove one garage door, and structurally stabilize the garage. The garage is
under-structured and the weight of the rear doors has compromised the header over the doors.
The owner wishes to replace the three doors with two doors at 6'6" each that meet in the
middle creating a 13' opening. The third door would be removed and not replaced. New siding
would be installed to match the existing siding on the garage. From the drawing provided it
appears that the new 13' door would be installed in the center of the garage wall.
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Garages, Carriage Houses, and Outbuildings
A. should be preserved and maintained. Original features should be repaired to match the
original.
B. should not be moved or relocated to another part of the lot, if original to the property.
GARAGE DOORS
C. should be maintained to the greatest extent possible, but may be retrofitted with
modern hardware and custom garage door openers. If the original doors are missing or
too deteriorated to repair, they should be replaced with new doors that fit the original
opening and are appropriate to the design and period of construction of the garage.
D. should be raised panel designs, with a solid core, if proposed to be in metal designs.
Flush design doors (without raised panels) unless retrofitted to look like traditional
doors and hollow core metal doors should be avoided when possible.
E. should have windows simple in design with clear glass, if windows are necessary.
Muntins in a simple design may also be used.The use of ornamental stained glass and
openings in decorative shapes such as sunbursts and oval designs are not permitted.
F. should have painted metal panel doors to match the house in a color appropriate to the
period of the house.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff does not recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness as submitted.
Staff would recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following
conditions:
1. Two garage doors are replaced in their current location, same size, and similar style. See
Exhibit Fl
2. The third garage door may be removed and the opening sided over. 411)
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rib Laura Gavina(owner)was present for tonight's discussion. Diana Duarte(daughter-in-law)was also
present to translate.
Stroud: Does the applicant understand the staff recommendations?
Diana Duarte: Yes.
Stroud: It was difficult to see door styles on the website. Which overhead door?
Miller: Madison design in the 3`d column on page noted as "32" for Standard Carriage House
Window Design Trims.
Wiedmeyer: Shown as a single row of glass on the top, 4 panes per panel.
Duarte: We agree with the design.
Motion made by Committee Member Ristow to approve as with staff recommendations.
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Wiedmeyer.
The motion passed unanimously.
18 Warwick Place— Replace 6 windows
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace six
windows on the property. Two windows in the master bedroom will have the sashes remade to
match the original, new ropes, weights and hardware will be installed. Four windows on the
rear enclosed sleeping porch will have new double paned, low-e, double hung windows
' installed. The windows in the master bedroom are severely damaged and the windows in the
enclosed sleeping porch are not original.
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Windows
A. which are original should be preserved in their original location, size, and design and
with their original materials and numbers of panes (glass lights).
B. which are not original should not be added to primary facades or to secondary facades
where readily visible.
C. should be repaired rather than replaced, but if replacement is necessary, the
recommended replacement should be in-kind to match the originals in material and
design. Windows clad in aluminum or baked-on aluminum are acceptable as
replacement windows for use throughout the structure. Factors to be considered in
determining whether the severity of deterioration of windows requires replacement
shall include but not be limited to the following factors: damage, excessive weathering,
loss of soundness or integrity of the wood, deterioration due to rot or insect attack, and
cost to repair. As to the factor of the cost to repair windows, a particular window may
be permitted to be replaced rather than repaired if the estimated cost to repair the
windows is more than the estimated cost of the purchase and installation of appropriate
replacement windows.
D. which are original of steel or aluminum should be repaired with materials to match the
rt. original. If repair is not feasible, replacement should be with new windows to match the
Design Review Subcommittee—August 9, 2011
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original as closely as possible in materials and dimensions. Aluminum extruded windows
are an acceptable replacement substitute for original steel sash windows, as long as
their size, shape and profile match the original windows.
E. Vinyl extruded windows are not permitted for use in historic districts.
F. which are new should not have snap-on or flush muntins. True divided muntins are
preferred over these types of muntins which do not have the same appearance as
historic windows. New muntins which are an integral part of the window sash and
installed on both sides of the glass are preferable to snap-on simple grilles.
G. screens and/or storms should be wood or baked-on or anodized aluminum and fit
within the window frames.
H. that are approved for replacement may be fitted with new double-paned Low-E glass
that will improve the energy conservation on the interior. Only low-e glass that does not
contain a tint should be used.
F. should have painted metal panel doors to match the house in a color appropriate to the
period of the house.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff would recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following
conditions:
1. The new windows on the rear are not vinyl as specified, but aluminum-clad or wood
windows.
2. The new windows match the existing opening sizes.
Al)
The new windows are one over one, double hung.
Miller: Vinyl material is requested?
David Jurina (owner): No. However one of the one of the documents submitted to staff did
indicate vinyl for cost comparison. The porch will have replacement windows.
Miller: Aluminum Clad on sleeping porch?
Jurina: Yes. Replacement is needed to support the Low E glass windows.
Stroud: Sleeping porch has a total of 6 windows to replace?
Jurina: Yes. The two windows (master bedroom) on the south façade on the 1st level are to
have frame and sash replacements. In addition, storms will be installed too.
Motion made by Committee Member Roberson to approve as with staff recommendation, with
an amendment to include a total of 8 windows (2 south facade, 6 sleeping porch).
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Wiedmeyer.
The motion passed unanimously.
408 Fulton Street—Replace all windows
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace the
windows on the property. The work started on July 29 and a stop work order was issued. The
owner was instructed to save the original woo sashes that had been stacked in the yard. At 4111)
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least twelve one over one, double hung, vinyl windows had been installed on the property.
Staff has examined the remaining original windows and found no evidence of severe
deterioration (no broken sashes, window panes, muntins, etc.)
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Windows
A. which are original should be preserved in their original location, size, and design and
with their original materials and numbers of panes (glass lights).
B. which are not original should not be added to primary facades or to secondary facades
where readily visible.
C. should be repaired rather than replaced, but if replacement is necessary, the
recommended replacement should be in-kind to match the originals in material and
design. Windows clad in aluminum or baked-on aluminum are acceptable as
replacement windows for use throughout the structure. Factors to be considered in
determining whether the severity of deterioration of windows requires replacement
shall include but not be limited to the following factors: damage, excessive weathering,
loss of soundness or integrity of the wood, deterioration due to rot or insect attack, and
cost to repair. As to the factor of the cost to repair windows, a particular window may
be permitted to be replaced rather than repaired if the estimated cost to repair the
windows is more than the estimated cost of the purchase and installation of appropriate
replacement windows.
D. which are original of steel or aluminum should be repaired with materials to match the
original. If repair is not feasible, replacement should be with new windows to match the
original as closely as possible in materials and dimensions. Aluminum extruded windows
are an acceptable replacement substitute for original steel sash windows, as long as
their size, shape and profile match the original windows.
E. Vinyl extruded windows are not permitted for use in historic districts.
F. which are new should not have snap-on or flush muntins. True divided muntins are
preferred over these types of muntins which do not have the same appearance as
historic windows. New muntins which are an integral part of the window sash and
installed on both sides of the glass are preferable to snap-on simple grilles.
G. screens and/or storms should be wood or baked-on or anodized aluminum and fit
within the window frames.
H. that are approved for replacement may be fitted with new double-paned Low-E glass
that will improve the energy conservation on the interior. Only low-e glass that does not
contain a tint should be used.
F. should have painted metal panel doors to match the house in a color appropriate to the
period of the house.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff does not recommend approval as submitted.
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Design Review Subcommittee—August 9, 2011
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Staff would recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following
conditions: 411)
1. All vinyl windows and trim are removed from the property.
2. The original 6 over 1 wood window sashes are replaced in the twelve windows that
were removed.
3. Ropes, weights and hardware are restored.
4. New aluminum storms are installed to increase energy efficiency.
5. All remaining original wood windows are repaired as needed including but not limited
to: adjusting stops, glazing, hardware, ropes, and weights replaced, and new storms if
necessary.
Stroud: Basically, commission is asking to have the original windows put back in. The historic
district does not permit vinyl. The material is not recommended due to life span. Windows on
ground floor were probably installed in the 1920's. Converted from a bungalow to a four
square without permit (unknown date). Second story windows were made to match the first
floor.
Scott Chiang(owner): Was trying to increase the efficiency with replacing the windows.
Sylvester Malek (Continental Window & Glass): Why not vinyl? We manufacture virgin vinyl
products.
Stroud: Many vinyl windows have already been replaced in the historic district, due to
inefficiency.
Malek: Our windows are more effective, due to the virgin vinyl material.
Stroud: A vinyl window alters the appearance;trim, profile, etc. The work was done without a
valid permit for window replacement. The city ordinance does not permitted vinyl material in
the historic district. If the required building permit had been applied for window replacement,
you would have been informed at that time that vinyl windows would not be allowed.
Couture: Wood windows can be improved for their efficiency.
Wiedmeyer: Appearance in the historic district is very important. Altering the window opening
larger or smaller would greatly change the visual appearance.
Saher: Energy efficiency is all improved with a storm window. The original wood windows with
storm windows would be quite efficient. Windows are not the only factor in house efficiency.
Additionally, vinyl material has been determined as a material that fails quicker than the
original wood windows that can be repaired. Several areas of new construction within Elgin's
boundaries will not allow vinyl material.
Stroud: We have to follow the guidelines. Guidelines were approved by the city council.
Chiang: I tried calling about ten contractors. Most did not return the call. A few indicated the
windows could not be repaired,they had to be replaced. Outside the original windows looked
okay, but inside they didn't work well; difficult to open or keep open. Vinyl windows were less
expensive than replacement wood windows. This is to be a rental property.
Stroud: Ropes and counter weights need to be replaced on older windows to continue their up
and down motion. Relatively easy fix and less expense than replacement too.
Miller: There are contractors that will do the replacement work.
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Design Review Subcommittee—August 9, 2011
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Wiedmeyer: Difference between a contractor and a window company is the contract is willing
to repair wood window; a window company's representative is there to "sell" new windows.
Window companies are versed in their products, not in repairs of existing windows. That's how
they make their money. Truly, repairs are typically less costly; in addition to the older wood
window being better constructed then windows made today.
Malek: Energy efficiency grants can be received by homeowners. We could install the vinyl
windows with a green exterior color.
Saher: The windows are not the only energy efficiency portion of a structure.
Stroud: We could vote on the vinyl windows if the applicant so desires. However, I believe the
applicant has been shown which direction the voting will probably go.
Wiedmeyer: Just to clarify, no permit was applied for the window replacements?
Malek: No permit was pulled specifically for windows. Owner had received permit for other
types of repairs.
Wiedmeyer: Clearly if a permit had been requested for the window replacement or repair, the
COA process would have been provided to the applicant; and vinyl windows would not have
been installed.
Malek: Mistake by the sales person for not confirming permit was obtained.
Chiang: Is it possible to keep the vinyl windows in the back of the house?
Couture: The original wood windows should be restored and reinstalled.
Miller: Style was six 6 panes with muntins.
Miller: Color is not as important as the profile. Vinyl window profiles are too narrow.
Malek: We have the ability to make the six pane muntins. Grids are installed outside the
window.
Wiedmeyer: Require the muntins outside, inside and between the glass panes too.
Saber: Question for contractor. Does your company only sell vinyl?
Malek: Yes, currently we are only vinyl. We used to have an aluminum product, but our
biggest demand was for vinyl, so we stopped making aluminum windows.
Chiang: Reluctant to put back the wood windows. The frames might be damaged from the
removal.
Stroud: A carpenter will know how to install the former windows appropriately. At this time,
we ask the applicant if he would like us to vote on the COA as submitted.
Chiang: Yes.
Motion made by Committee Member Wiedmeyer to approve as submitted (install vinyl
window replacements).
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Roberson. A roll-call vote was completed.
The motion failed unanimously (0-6).
The appeal process was explained to the applicant and the contractor. In addition, a letter of
denial will be sent to the applicant containing the appeal process.
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518 E Chicago Street— Install substitute fascia/soffit over wood
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to cover the
existing soffit and fascia with aluminum and vinyl on the building and carport. The owner and
his contractors believe the existing original plywood soffit and fascia is no longer repairable or
paintable. This may be true for the building, but the soffit/fascia on the carport is not plywood
but rather a piece of 2x lumber that shows no sign of deterioration.
While the Guidelines explicitly state that this treatment is not allowed, it is not inappropriate
for this style of building to have metal soffits and fascia. Vinyl would still not be an appropriate
material.
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Architectural Details and Features
A. should be repaired rather than replaced.
B. should not be removed or altered if original to the building.
C. should not be covered or concealed with vinyl, aluminum or other substitute material.
D. should not be added unless there is physical, pictorial, or historical evidence that such
features were original to the house or consistent with the style which would allow them
to be added to the house. These features should match the original in materials, scale,
location, proportions,form, and detailing.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff does not recommend approval as submitted.
Ronald Conley(owner): There is no soffit on the carport, only fascia board.
Wiedmeyer: What would be done on carport?
Conley: It was painted 2-3 years ago; it not in bad shape really. The contractor would put the
aluminum over the fascia board. It is more for consistency of appearance.
Wiedmeyer: The fascia would be wrapped in aluminum? Correct?
Conley: Yes. The building fascia and soffits would be wrapped in aluminum too.
Wiedmeyer: Typically the aluminum is bent on site and limited seams are made.
Conley: Did not really vinyl material would not be allowed, but we are willing to have the
aluminum material used if approved.
Stroud: Building was constructed in 1960's. This is not like a building from the 1860's. I don't
feel the need to be as restrictive on the material (only wood).
Roberson: What is on the corners of the soffit?
Conley: There were 3" vents that were covered. Want to place a window screen material over
the opening to allow venting.
Wiedmeyer: About 1/2 of the building fascia and soffit are beyond painting. Signs of rot and dry
rot are evident.
Miller: What about the cove molding where the brick and soffit meet?
Conley: Contractor is willing to wrap it too.
Wiedmeyer: It is currently a lx with a cove molding.
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ribk Roberson: If the fascia is replaced prior to wrapping, will it affect the roof corners?
Conley: The roof was recently replaced. If the fascia is removed, the flat roof will be
susceptible to leaking. Fascia boards are weather checked and cracked; not necessarily rot.
Motion made by Committee Member Roberson to approve with staff recommendations, with a
minor amendment to carport requirement (fascia to be covered only).
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Wiedmeyer.
The motion passed unanimously.
Table New Business Items:
Motion made by Committee Member Roberson to table agenda items Fl & F2, 70 S Chapel
Street and 288-290 Villa St, due to non-representation.
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Couture.
The motion passed unanimously.
CORRESPONDENCE:
Aluminum features on 1950-1960 homes:
Committee members held a general discussion regarding structures that are now 50+years old
and aluminum features are appropriate on some designs/structures, while inappropriate on
others. Consideration of aluminum details should continue to be reviewed on a case by case
situation.
ADJOURNMENT:
Motion to adjourn was made by Committee Member Ristow.
The motion was seconded by Committee Member Wiedmeyer.
The motion passed unanimously.
The meeting of the Design Review Subcommittee was adjourned at 7:10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Cindy A. Walden Approved:
rikDesign Review Subcommittee Secretary