HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 Design Review Subcommitee (7) •
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Minutes
Design Review Subcommittee
of the Elgin Heritage Commission
June 8, 2010
The meeting of the Design Review Subcommittee was called to order at 6:05 p.m. in the City
Council Chambers (Located on the 2nd floor of City Hall)by Chairman Stroud.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Bill Briska, Betsy Couture, Paul Durrenberger(6:10), Pat Miller, Dennis Roxworthy, Steve
Stroud and John Wiedmeyer
MEMBERS ABSENT:
None
CITY STAFF PRESENT:
Jennifer Fritz-Williams, Historic Preservation Planner; and Cindy Walden, DRS Secretary
'* PROPERTIES ON AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION:
Old Business
None
New Business
552 Raymond Street—Replace front door and driveway
306 Bent Street— Install shed
302 Fulton Street—Replace porch spindles
935 Douglas Avenue—Remove and rebuild two chimneys, replace windowsills, and repoint
masonry walls in various locations.
OTHERS PRESENT:
Holly Wiedmeyer, Margret Williams
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Motion made by Commissioner Briska to approve the minutes of April 13 and April 27, 2010, as
submitted.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Roxworthy.
The motion passed unanimously.
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Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
Page 2 of 9
ITEMS TABLED:
306 Bent Street—Install shed; tabled due to non-representation
NEW BUSINESS:
552 Raymond Street—Replace front door and driveway
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace the front
door and install an asphalt driveway.
The current door was installed without a COA. It is the proper material but not the right style for
house. Staff has proposed two alternates in Exhibit G1 and G2.
The current driveway is gravel and has been cited by code. The owner wishes to cover the
existing gravel with asphalt. There is no change to the size or location of the driveway.
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Doors and Door Features
A. should be replaced with new doors appropriate for the style and period of the dwelling.
Replacement doors should be similar in design to the original in style, glazing (type of
glass and area) and lights (pane configuration). Wood or solid core fiberglass is
acceptable materials for use in replacement doors.
B. should be constructed of solid wood panels, such as the four-panel Homestead or
Italianate design may be used on the front if appropriate to the style of the house.
C. should involve glazing in clear etched or beveled glass as appropriate to the style of the
house, if applicable.
D. should not be removed or altered. The original size of the door opening should not be
enlarged, reduced, or shortened in height.
E. should not be replaced by doors with new designs, especially those at the front entrance
or at side entrances which are readily visible from the street.
Driveways
A. should always be preserved in their original designs, materials, (cobblestone, concrete,
brick, etc.), and placement.
B. should be of brick, concrete, or concrete tracks (narrow strips) if it is a new or
replacement driveway in the front or side yards. Asphalt or textured concrete designed to
look like brick pavers are also appropriate materials. Gravel driveways are discouraged
because gravel migrates and is difficult to maintain. If approved, gravel driveways
should have proper edging in brick, stone, concrete, or metal installed.
C. should have their parking areas located behind the front building line and be screened
with hedges, shrubs, or fences where noticeable from the street. The width of driveways
in front of the building line should not exceed ten feet. In width, sidewalks should not be
constructed adjacent to the driveway and should be distinguished by a landscaped barrier.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff recommends approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following conditions: 41)
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Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
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1. The new front door is wood or smooth fiberglass.
2. The new front door fits the existing opening.
The driveway is approved by the planning and zoning depaitment
*****
Stroud: Is staff recommendations agreeable to the applicant regarding the door?
Andrew Johnson(owner): Yes.
Stroud: Driveway only along on north elevation?
Walden: Yes. Zoning allows a homeowner to have a parking pad 20' beyond the face of the
structure, equal distance is width as the existing approach.
Johnson: The driveway and a garage were previously approved by the committee. However,
the contactor walked away with the funds. Now the garage project is on hold due to finances.
Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to approve with staff recommendation.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Briska.
The motion passed unanimously.
306 Bent Street—Install shed
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to allow a vinyl
shed installed without a permit or a COA to remain on the property. The shed is located at the
rear of the property but no plat of survey was submitted to determine exact location.
Additionally, the property is a corner lot, allowing full view of the shed. The shed is pre-
fabricated, vinyl construction.
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Accessory Structures
A. should be smaller in scale than the dwelling; clearly secondary in nature.
B. should be simple in design but reflecting the general character of the associated dwelling.
For example, use gable roof forms if the dwelling has a gable roof, hipped roof forms if
the dwelling has a hipped roof etc.
C. should be built at traditional locations for outbuildings in the locally designated districts.
These include at rear lot lines, adjacent to alleys, and at the back side of a dwelling;
D. should be compatible in design, shape, materials, and roof shape to the associated
dwelling;
E. should be of an exterior material to match the associated dwelling such as clapboard,
stucco, or brick. However, if not readily visible from the street, secondary buildings may
have exterior substitute siding materials such as cement fiber board with appropriate trim
and exposure and cementitious materials.
F. should be of traditional materials if readily visible. For garages, wood paneled doors are
more appropriate than paneled doors of vinyl, aluminum, or steel. Wood paneled
overhead roll-up doors are widely available and are appropriate for new garages. For two
car garages the use of two single doors instead of one larger double door is more
appropriate for use in a historic district. However, one double is unacceptable for garages
of less than twenty-two feet.
G. should be in designs that are more appropriate for use with traditionally designed
structures, if prefabricated sheds are proposed to be used.
g.
Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
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Staff Recommendation:
Staff does not recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness as submitted.
Staff would recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following
conditions:
1. Plat of survey is provided and approved confirming the shed meets all the requirements
of the zoning ordinance.
2. The shed is replaced with a wood structure.
*****
Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to table, due to non-representation.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Wiedmeyer.
The motion passed unanimously.
73 Geneva St/302 Fulton Street—Replace porch spindles
The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace the
handrails on the west porch. The existing handrails are not exterior grade and not original. At
the west side of the building stairs down to the lower level apartment require handrails on the
stoop even though there is only one step.
The owner has suggested square 2x2 spindles turned 45 degrees to match the existing columns.
However,the columns are not original and not appropriate for the style of house. Staff is
suggesting sawn balusters and an appropriate handrail in keeping with the original character of
the house (Exhibit G1 and G2).
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Porch Columns and Railings
A. should be preserved and maintained. Where repair is required,use materials to match the
original in dimensions and detailing.
B. should be rebuilt in historic designs if the original columns and railings have been
removed or replaced.
C. should have new balusters for the railing, if required. Porch balusters (also called
spindles) should be appropriate for the building's style and period. The height of the
railing should be in line with the window sill level, if present, and no greater than 30
inches in height.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff recommends approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following conditions:
1. The final sawn baluster is approved by staff.
The new handrail is clear, cedar, primed and painted.
****
Dan Miller was requested by Matthew Ellett(owner) to represent the COA request:
Interior balusters were used outdoors. Owner thought the COA was dropped off for approval.
Photos (brought tonight by D.Miller) indicate the work has already been completed. Unable to
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Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
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locate sawn balusters; none found in the books. Porch was added. "Eastlake" feel would need
stick and ball design.
Wiedmeyer: Do you feel the balustrade fits the house?
D.Miller: If it was my house, not replacing the porch; I would want simple details.
Fritz-Williams: Grant was approved for replacing architectural features.
D.Miller: There was replacement of the rotted trim, crown, etc. I encouraged him to replace the
interior balusters.
Stroud: SBA100 on exhibit G2 would be a good design. In the SWAN neighborhood, there are
small Italianate
P.Miller: Probably a bracketed canopy, not a porch was there. As we know, sometimes a
railing is needed with a canopy.
Briska: If canopy was installed,what type of railings would be used?
Wiedmeyer: Yes the square balusters do go with the square post; but by adding the square
balusters you are making the house even more inappropriate.
Briska: Height of the balusters? Would they need to be more than 33" for safety/code?
D.Miller: Currently they are built at 33".
Fritz-Williams: Would need to drop back to 30" and add black rail at 36"; similar to 373 Park
Street's porch/entry.
P.Miller: Looks like a four square added to the 1880's building. Three decades apart in style.
Wiedmeyer: Does it need to be a rail there?
Stroud: Committee should not set precedence for no railing.
Motion made by Commissioner Briska to approve as submitted (as built).
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Roxworthy.
The motion failed unanimously.
P.Miller: The 1880's is stick and ball era.
Briska: House is somewhat fancy. Turned or stick and ball; not"Eastlake" styling.
P.Miller: Turned spindles?
Briska: Substantial in weight; need heavy turned spindles.
Durrenburger: Sewn balusters are okay.
D.Miller: Stick and ball design was used at 467 Division for the Habitat for Humanity house.
P.Miller: Need stick and ball details. Time period is right for stick and ball.
Motion made by Commissioner Durrenberger to approve with staff recommendations (either
SBA100 or SBA106 sewn balusters).
No second was received.
The COA request was withdrawn by D.Miller.
935 Douglas Avenue—Remove and rebuild two chimneys, replace windowsills, and repoint
masonry walls in various locations
The contractor has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to take down
and rebuild the chimneys due to severe deterioration. The size and design of the chimneys will
not change. The chimney caps are currently slightly smaller than the chimneys leading to water
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Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
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infiltration. The new chimney caps will be slightly larger eliminating the ledge. The chimneys
will be painted white to match the house. 41,)
Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications:
Chimneys
A. should be rebuilt to match the original design if rebuilding is required.
B. should be cleaned and repointed in accordance with masonry guidelines to match the
original in materials, colors, shape, and brick pattern. Chimneys that have been
extensively repointed resulting in mismatched colors and textures may be painted in brick
colors such as dark red or brown.
C. should have clay, slate, or stone caps. Metal caps may be acceptable if they are minimally
visible.
D. should have proper flashing at the point where they meet the roof. Metal flashing should
be used instead of the application of caulking material or bituminous coating,which can
deteriorate due to weathering and allow moisture damage.
o Metal flashing around a chimney should consist of both the base flashing and the
counter(cap) flashing that should overlap the base by at least 4 inches.
o Flashing should be step flashing, not box flashing.
E. should have corbelling or minimal detailing if appropriate.
F. should be constructed properly, using red brick in traditional dimensions, if applicable.
Staff Recommendation:
Staff recommends approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness as submitted.
****
Fritz-Williams: Regarding the staff approved windowsill; only one sill was replaced. Once it's
been painted, you won't really tell which one was replaced.
Wiedmeyer: How far down is the chimney being taken?
Eric Larson(owner): Down to the roof line. Once it is rebuilt, a new cap will be installed. The
cap will be tapered.
Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to approve as submitted.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Couture.
The motion passed unanimously.
CORRESPONDENCE:
Item G-1 Fence Guideline
Staff comments:
On May 13, I received a complaint from Mr. Miller that the fence at 467 Division was not
installed according to the requirements of the guidelines. He specifically stated the fence needed
to be painted and that corner posts and gate posts had to be installed. Since I see the fence every
day, I knew there were corner posts and gate posts installed at that time. However,his complaint
regarding the painting was invalid since only half the pickets were installed. On May 26, Mr.
Miller e-mailed me again to complain about the corner posts and gate posts at 467 Division. Our
correspondence from that day is included as Exhibit A.
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Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
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As you can see from the e-mails, Mr. Miller believes that corner posts and gate posts are required
to be in-line with the pickets, only inline posts may be behind the pickets. He has provided
several examples that, according to him, look"classy." My interpretation of the guidelines is
slightly different. I read Section K(Exhibit B) as "if appropriate to the layout/design," fences
should have in-line corner posts and gate posts. Posts behind pickets are allowed. I have been
approving fences this way since I was hired by the city with no problems until last month.
I have attached historic photographs showing fences without in-line corner posts and gate posts
(Exhibit C). I think in order to maintain variety we should continue to allow posts to be inline or
in-line depending on the style of fence.
Fritz-Williams: Guidelines were updated in the past couple years to ensure material, location
and possible styles of fences for historic district properties are addressed on a case by case basis.
D.Miller: (Copies of photos and other drawings were dispersed to the committee members.)
Previous to the latest guidelines, several meetings were held by Pat Miller, Sarosh Saher and
myself regarding revisions to the Design Review Guidelines for fences.
The fence at 636 Park St has been discussed around town. Built in a traditional manor, with
posts. Wrapping a corner post in pickets is not traditional.
On page 2, you will see the detailed drawings that were submitted for the guidelines.
People are buying"sections" at the local store and slapping the fence on posts.
Minimally, a post is needed at the gate and corners; including finials.
At 467 Division St the fence is framed incorrectly. Corner and gates posts would make it look
appropriate. Posts make the difference.
Staff added fence height of 42"with 50% open to guidelines.
Letter K of the guidelines: Fences in Front Yards was quoted: if applicable to the layout, should have a
minimum of corner posts, end posts and gate posts which are slightly taller than the fence and five to ten inches
thick with a cap and finial. Line posts can be visible and decorative to compliment the main posts or be hidden
behind the picket design. Fences which cross a driveway or walkway should have gate posts. Gates should be
designed to swing onto the private walkway or driveway, not onto the public sidewalk.
The corner posts need to be bigger, and taller.
Letter M of the guidelines: Fences in Rear Yards was quoted: built for privacy should have a minimum
of gate post, corner post, and end posts which are five to ten inches wide and taller than the pickets.
As you view the photos provided (B-3), notice the gate posts.
I am asking that in the future the guidelines be followed, as I intended them to be with posts and
corners posts. This was how the guidelines were intended to be interpreted.
Fritz-Williams: Responding to the wrapping of posts: B-3 would require corners and post if
being used. However,photo in B-4 is shown acceptable without the gate and corner posts. If it
not appropriate to the fence style, they should not be visible.
Stroud: There are thousands of photos of houses with fences from wire to grand designs. We
have to consider all possible fence styles for the guidelines. Back in the day, there were fences
made of split rail. Very common to seen even with the most beautiful of homes. If we require
them to be made to the standards of"olden days", it would be quite difficult.
Fences should not all be"museum quality". Not all fences are the same.
Thank you, Jennifer and Dan for your comments. Now I would like to hear from the rest of the
committee members and other attendees.
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Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
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Roxworthy: Agree with Dan in stepping up the quality of fences. However, the workers
cottage should not be elaborate. A 1950's ranch should not have massive posts or massive 4111)
fencing.
Couture: Fences are personnel preferences. They are removable. They also need to be
affordable for the property owner. Interpretation can vary greatly.
Wiedmeyer: These are guidelines. You can see both interpretations. Each fence needs to be
reviewed on a case by case basis.
Durrenberger: Agree, case by case basis needed for fences.
P.Miller: John, currently all fences are reviewed and approved by staff.
The design shown on"B2"was the proper material,but the difference is how it was connected.
There is a dog ear fence (St. Charles St) that is inappropriate. A different fence style should have
been used.
Problem come about while we working on the guidelines. Revisions were done; how we were to
get the guidelines to compliment each house. Fences are very visible. Something you don't
want to see if it's "ugly".
Problem with the guidelines is definitions. Split rail and"flat board" fences tended to be in the
rural areas. Now it's being done in the historic districts.
Stroud: One of the wealthiest homes in Elgin (320 Watch) had split rail without posts.
P.Miller: There are"line posts" and then there are corner and gate posts. The corner and gate
posts are needed to make a fence complete.
Briska: Over several years my knowledge and other committee members has grown. If it were
my fence, I would have designed it differently.
There are many good designs and many poor designs. Fence builders can't be generalized.
One thing is clear, if posts are more prominent, the fence tends to have a better design. 4115
It is hard to determine the"correct" style for each property. Again, it comes down to interpretation.
There are a lot of bad fences due to spacing (too small in between pickets/boards).
Need to look at design elements of what style fence goes with which houses.
Maybe we need to break into a small group to revisit the fence guidelines for the sake of
improving the quality of the fence.
Durrenberger: Is there a list of fences that are problems? Are the problems fueled by the
economics of the owner?
Fritz-Williams: No, there is no listing. Who gets to define what is "ugly"? The community
otherwise thinks they are being forced to install only fences dictated to them.
Couture: We as a committee have reviewed fences.
Fritz-Williams: Yes, if there is height, location or spacing that are not provided for by the
existing guidelines. Most fences are referenced to B4, items #1, 2 and to B3 for posts and
pickets.
Briska: Spacing and posts elements are critical in fence design.
Wiedmeyer: If changes are needed to the guidelines; what is the process?
Fritz-Williams: Recommendation would be given from the Heritage Commission to the City
Council. An ordinance would need to be passed to validate the changes.
Stroud: Everything can be improved. A separate committee should be considered. Cindy,
since you have worked with various staff members regarding COA's,please give us your
comments.
Walden: As the secretary for this committee and assistance for the Historic Preservation
Specialists/Planner, I have assisted with the fence requests for COAs. As it has been stated
Design Review Subcommittee—June 8, 2010
Page 9 of 9
,.., earlier tonight, fences are personal preference items. Many staff members have shown and
attempted to convince homeowners of more appropriate styles for their homes. However, there
are many reasons why the homeowner does not want to change their COA request. Safety of
their children, containment of animals, economics and their desire to "mark their territory" are
just a few.
As much as staff can, some owners won't change the style of fence they want to install. When
the Design Review Guidelines are followed, the COA must be approved by staff.
Now, as a Planning Technician my duties are to review the location, style and height of fence
requests for properties within the city limits. These requirements are more lenient than the
historic district. Many times while talking with the applicants, details are the Design Review
Guidelines are used to help homeowner understand the basics of good fence construction and
design details.
Truly, I feel that Jennifer Fritz-Williams has and continues to utilize her vast knowledge and
education for the betterment of the historic districts.
Stroud: Holly, as a contractor, would you like to comment tonight?
H.Wiedmeyer: It's not that Dan is incorrect, but we need to allow for the artist designs to be
coupled by choices.
D.Miller: I am asking that fences not wrap the fence post. This is important.
We don't have to change the guidelines. The information is already there.
Asking for today's standards of the working man's quality, not museum quality.
Owners cannot take a stock fence and install in such a manner. It looks wrong. It is wrong.
Want the committee to have staff give direction to the homeowner to build the fence right.
Bring the standards up in Elgin.
Want the"do it yourselfer's"to build it right.
Couture: I know fence companies will work with the homeowners. Still it's interpretation.
Fritz-Williams: If applicable to the design, the elements such as corner posts and gate posts are
included. However, the manual is a"guideline".
ADJOURNMENT:
Motion to adjourn was made by Commissioner Roxworthy.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Briska.
The motion passed unanimously.
The meeting of the Design Review Subcommittee was adjourned at 7:38 p.m.
Respectfully submitted, ,
(16)
Cindy A. Walden Approved:
Design Review Subcommittee Secretary p/d