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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 Design Review Subcommitee (5) Minutes Design Review Subcommittee of the Elgin Heritage Commission May 11, 2010 The meeting of the Design Review Subcommittee was called to order at 6:10 p.m. in the City Council Chambers (Located on the 2nd floor of City Hall)by Chairman Stroud. MEMBERS PRESENT: Bill Briska, Betsy Couture, Paul Durenberger, Pat Miller, Dennis Roxworthy, Steve Stroud and John Wiedmeyer MEMBERS ABSENT: None CITY STAFF PRESENT: Jennifer Fritz-Williams, Historic Preservation Planner ""' PROPERTIES ON AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION: Old Business None New Business 320 N Spring Street— Side Porch and retaining wall 107 Lovell Street—Replace porch floor, treads, skirting 141 Tennyson Ct—Replace balustrade on side porch (along North Street) 527 Arlington Avenue—Replace soffits OTHERS PRESENT: Holly Wiedmeyer APPROVAL OF MINUTES: No minutes were provided for consideration. ITEMS TABLED: 320 N Spring Street—Retaining wall; for additional details of material to be used Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 2 of 9 NEW BUSINESS: 320 N Spring Street—Side Porch and retaining wall The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace the existing deck(9' x 4'11") on the south side of the building. This deck was originally approved as a porch. It was reviewed and approved by Zoning and Subdivision Hearing Board for a variation of the side and rear yard setbacks and DRSC in 2000. However,the porch was never completed. The current owner would like to expand the porch to be 16.5' long and 10' deep but is keeping her options open to retain the existing footprint and install the gazebo (as approved in 2000 as well). As originally approved, the porch was to have a roof with columns and a balustrade to match the front porch. The current owner would prefer to construct the deck without a roof but install the balustrade to match the front porch. Please note that expanding the deck size would not require any further variation of the zoning ordinance. The owner would also like to install a garden wall along the east property line and along the north property line. She has provided drawings showing the height and materials for the stone wall and iron top. Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications: Porches A. should be maintained in their original design with original materials and detailing. B. should be repaired or replaced to match the original in design, materials, scale, and placement. C. should be screened only if the structural framework for the screen panels is minimal and the open appearance of the porch is maintained. Screen panels should be placed behind the original features such as columns or railings and should not hide decorative details or result in the removal of original porch materials. D. should have steps of the same material as the porch floor(e.g. porches with wood floors should also have steps made of wood, not concrete or brick). E. should have poured concrete steps if the porch, patio or terrace floor is made of concrete (see section on Porch Steps). F. should have wood tongue and groove flooring running perpendicular to the façade, if the porch floor is made of wood. G. should have trellises made of wood, if trellises are appropriate. H. should be filled in as traditional for the type and style of the house, or with decorative wood framed skirting, vertical slats, or lattice panels, if open areas in the foundation exist. I. should not be removed if original to the dwelling. J. should not be enclosed with wood, glass, or other materials which would alter the porch's open appearance. Porch Columns and Railings A. should be preserved and maintained. Where repair is required, use materials to match the original in dimensions and detailing. Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 3 of 9 B. should be rebuilt in historic designs if the original columns and railings have been removed or replaced. C. should have new balusters for the railing, if required. Porch balusters (also called spindles) should be appropriate for the building's style and period. The height of the railing should be in line with the window sill level, if present, and no greater than 30 inches in height. Porch Staircases and Steps A. should be retained in their original location and configuration, if original to the property. Wood and concrete steps should be repaired with materials to match the original. B. should be replaced with wood rather than brick or concrete, if the porch floor is made of wood. C. should have their tread constructed in either 5/4x12 or 2x12 lumber. The ends of the treads should be bull-nosed and overhang the riser by no less than 1 inch. D. should have newel posts and balusters, treads and risers, to match original porch construction Retaining Walls A. should be preserved and maintained, if original to the dwelling(or built before 1945). B. should be of poured concrete(not concrete blocks) or in stone designs such as cut stone, random rubble, coursed rubble, or cobblestones. Retaining walls of brick are less appropriate but may be constructed. If constructed of artificial or cultured stone, textures, colors and random designs should replicate natural stone. If located in front yards, the walls should be constructed using up to two courses and an additional cap course, not to exceed twenty inches in height. C. should not be removed or replaced with new materials, if built before 1945. D. should not be built on the fronts of dwellings, if constructed of timbers or railroad ties. Staff Recommendation: Staff recommends preliminary approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness for a 5' deep x 16.5' wide porch with roof at this time. Staff will work with the owner to finalize details based on the discussion with the DRSC. Staff recommends approval of the retaining wall as submitted. ***** Krissy Palermo (owner): Stroud: This should not look like a deck. Roxworthy: Will there be a pitch to the roof? Owner: Yes, to match the front. Miller: Does changing the size affect the zoning? Staff: No. Miller: You will need to be careful about the placement of the posts and half posts. The sketch provided isn't correct. Owner: Right, I wanted to get the size approved first before finalizing the drawings. Stroud: The details are not up for discussion at this time, only the size. Miller: Is G6 going to be done? Staff: No, I will work with the owner to revise G6 to match the new footprint. Roxworthy: Changing the size brings the porch out to where? Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 4 of 9 Owner: The 5' x 16'6"porch would be in line with the corner of the garage on the west side and the corner of the house on the north side. Motion made by Commissioner Couture to approve.a side porch not to extend beyond the house. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Roxworthy. The motion passed unanimously. Owner: I want the pattern in the photos with iron on top. There will be no light at the post. Durrenberger: What is the total height? Owner: Three feet at the top of the post. Briska: Is it brick or block? Owner: Block, grey. Wiedmeyer: Will it be tumbled like the photos? Owner: yes. Miller: I don't think it should be artificial material or this tall. Owner: I need to keep people out of my yard. I want a substantial look to it. Wiedmeyer: have you looked at veneer stone with CMU backup? Like DelWebb has. Couture: I think the Library at Kimball has the same system too. Wiedmeyer: that could be the same look. Stroud: You could just build it out of flagstone. A load of that would cost$300. Owner: I had an estimate for flagstone that was $5000 for this project, that included labor. Miller: Traditionally this house had a picket fence. Couture: I don't think a picket fence is going to provide the security she needs. Stroud: True,but we need to follow the guidelines. Could you do cast iron or wrought iron like your other fence? Owner: It is too expensive and the hillside slopes up. It won't be enough of a deterrent. Couture: A simple brick wall like the one on Douglas and Slade may be more economical and provide the presence you need. Miller: That would be more expensive than a picket fence. Durrenberger: Have you considered hedges, like barberry? Stroud: we need to work together to make changes that would provide her security and meet the guidelines. Briska: There are several options: 1. Tumbled concrete block,brick colored is a min. 2. Poured concrete wall. 3. Fake stone wall (CMU back-up with faux stone veneer). 4. 8"lamen stone, dry lain. 5. Brick, dry lain. Owner: I've looked at those options and most are not cost effective. Couture: I can work with you to find a good faux material like James' patio. Miller: You should also think about setting the structure back from the lot line 12"-18"to soften the look. Owner: I don't want to do that. Stroud: On your proposed material, the surface could be graffitti'ed. Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to tabled the item. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Couture. The motion passed unanimously. 41) Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 5 of 9 107 Lovell Street—Replace porch floor, treads, skirting The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness for work begun without a permit. He has installed substitute material for porch decking and treads. He has started to replace the skirting below the dining room (east side)with solid skirting. Also, the skirting next to the front stairs is solid. Additionally, work has begun on a side stoop on the east side of the house. The owner pulled a permit/Certificate of Appropriateness to begin work that included replacing the treads. However, the new treads do not overhang the risers by 1" on three sides. The new treads are 1x6 Trex boards. In a phone conversation with staff, the owner asked about using substitute material. Staff informed him that substitute material is allowed for porch floors but that the 1x4 dimension and the tongue and groove design needed to be maintained. The boards installed are 1x6 and not tongue and groove. The skirting next to the stairs was 1x4 boards with a 1" space similar to the rest of the skirting. These have been replaced with a solid piece of lumber. The 1x4 skirting from the front porch used to extend all the way along the east side of the house under the dining room area. This portion was once possibly an open porch although the Sanborn Maps do not show that. In order to stop the cold and the critters from getting underneath the house, the owner has started to replace the open skirting with a solid skirt. Finally, the owner has started to install a back stoop on the east side of the house. He has provided a drawing of the proposed stoop. But there are several issues that remain unclear or are not appropriate. The stoop decking needs to be perpendicular to the building. The structure of the stoop has not been given. The treads will need to overhang the risers by 1". Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications: Porches A. should be maintained in their original design with original materials and detailing. B. should be repaired or replaced to match the original in design,materials, scale, and placement. C. should have steps of the same material as the porch floor(e.g. porches with wood floors should also have steps made of wood, not concrete or brick). D. should have wood tongue and groove flooring running perpendicular to the façade, if the porch floor is made of wood. E. should be filled in as traditional for the type and style of the house, or with decorative wood framed skirting, vertical slats, or lattice panels, if open areas in the foundation exist. Porch Staircases and Steps A. should be retained in their original location and configuration, if original to the property. Wood and concrete steps should be repaired with materials to match the original. B. should be replaced with wood rather than brick or concrete, if the porch floor is made of wood. C. should have their tread constructed in either 5/4x12 or 2x12 lumber. The ends of the treads should be bull-nosed and overhang the riser by no less than 1 inch. • Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 6 of 9 D. should have newel posts and balusters, treads and risers,to match original porch construction. Staff Recommendation: Staff recommends approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following conditions: 1. The skirting next to the stairs is replaced to match the original (1x4 boards with a 1" air gap) 2. The treads on the front stairs overhang the risers by I". 3. Drawings of the structure for the side stoop are provided for the building permit. 4. Materials for the side stoop are provided for the building permit. 5. The treads on the side stoop overhang the risers by 1". 6. Skirting under dining room shall be detailed with a water table board and drip edge. Patrick Frazier(owner): the east side was originally a porch with a canopy over the front door only. Stroud: There have been many changes to this house. Do you agree with all of staff recommendations? Owner: We would like to use trex on the treads as well. Wiedmeyer: We have never approved substitute material on treads before. Miller: Using decking on the porch allows water to get onto the framing. Owner: The framing is pressure-treated. Miller: the skirt framing has been altered from the original photo. Owner: When we replaced it, we matched what was there. Miller: When you changed it you should have made the solid skirt frame line up with the post. Also,the stringer should be exposed on the stairs, not solid. Owner: I need to keep the critters out. Wiedmeyer: You can do that by having the stringer and bottom frame on the outside and the skirt boards behind. You may need to take the stairs apart though. Also, on the east side, solid framing. Could you use Durarock and then parge it to look like a foundation? Owner: I used pvc for the bottom skirt board and fiber cement board for the solid panels. Wiedmeyer: What about the side deck? Owner: It will not have a roof,just a three sided step up. Staff: It is completely hidden behind the fence as well. What is the structure? Owner: The back steps are on the concrete sidewalk. There are no piers. Staff: You will need to get that approved by Steve Bone. Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to approve as amended. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Wiedmeyer. The motion passed unanimously. 141 Tennyson Ct—Replace balustrade on side porch (along North Street) The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace the side porch along North Street. The current porch is probably the original porch but the columns have shifted over time. The west column has shifted significantly at the top, almost separating from the box beam. The east column is bowing. The owner wishes to replace the porch baluster, ti Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 7 of 9 columns and skirting with wood per the attached drawing. The stairs and porch floor would remain. Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications: Porches A. should be maintained in their original design with original materials and detailing. B. should be repaired or replaced to match the original in design, materials, scale, and placement. C. should have steps of the same material as the porch floor(e.g. porches with wood floors should also have steps made of wood, not concrete or brick). E. should have poured concrete steps if the porch, patio or terrace floor is made of concrete (see section on Porch Steps). F. should be filled in as traditional for the type and style of the house, or with decorative wood framed skirting, vertical slats, or lattice panels, if open areas in the foundation exist. I. should not be removed if original to the dwelling. Porch Columns and Railings A. should be preserved and maintained. Where repair is required, use materials to match the original in dimensions and detailing. B. should be rebuilt in historic designs if the original columns and railings have been removed or replaced. C. should have new balusters for the railing, if required. Porch balusters (also called rPlk spindles) should be appropriate for the building's style and period. The height of the railing should be in line with the window sill level, if present, and no greater than 30 inches in height. Staff Recommendation: Staff does not recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness as submitted. Staff would recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following conditions: 1. The brick columns, baluster, and skirting are dismantled and salvaged for reuse. 2. Proper footings are installed to support the columns. 3. The brick columns, baluster, and skirting are re-assembled to match the existing. 4. Extra bricks, if needed, may be found at salvage yards or by reusing the bricks from the inside of the balustrade. The inside of the balustrade could have new bricks since it is not visible to the street. 5. Drawings of the structure for the porch are provided for the building permit. ***** Mort Mahmudi(owner): Miller: I don't think it is original. If you rebuild it in brick, it shoudn't look like this. Wiedmeyer: Taking down the brick may cause the floor to collapse. Miller: Porches should be wood like the houses to the south of you. The columns don't line up with the roof. Stroud: Could you slavage the brick? Owner: No they ear ecrumbling. • 1 Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 8 of 9 Stroud: Are there pictures of the original, possible at the tax assessor's office? Staff: But they don't have to go original,just appropriate. Miller: Square columns are not appropriate, they should be round. Briska: Really, the whole porch needs to go. Roxworthy: Any water that gets on the porch is running behind the concrete floor, deteriorating the brick. Stroud: You are looking for approval of exhibit G to replace the side porc? Owner: Yes. Miller: Perhaps we should just approve removal and see how much needs to be replaced first. Stroud: I agree—brace the roof/box beam and remove everything else. Couture: That's backwards of what we did before. Wiedmeyer: Will staff revise the drawings to show round columns, stair details, etc.? Staff: yes, I will include the stairs,handrail, newel posts, etc. Stroud: Then we can approve G now. Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to approve as amended (with stairs, newel post and 6"round columns). The motion was seconded by Commissioner Briska. The motion passed unanimously. 527 Arlington Avenue—Replace soffits The owner has submitted an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness to replace the soffit around the entire building. The owner states that the soffit is rotten and difficult to maintain. They are proposing a substitute material that"looks like wood." The owner will bring a sample or brochure with them to the meeting. Elgin Design Guideline Manual Specifications: Architectural Details and Features A. should be repaired rather than replaced. B. should not be removed or altered if original to the building. C. should not be covered or concealed with vinyl, aluminum or other substitute material. D. should not be added unless there is physical, pictorial, or historical evidence that such features were original to the house or consistent with the style which would allow them to be added to the house. These features should match the original in materials, scale, location, proportions, form, and detailing. Staff Recommendation: Staff does not recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness as submitted. Staff would recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following conditions: 1. The soffit is replaced only where damaged beyond repair(at the return eaves). 2. Replacement material to match original. Tim Vruble(owner): I am amending our COA application to replace only rotten wood with Design Review Subcommittee—May 11, 2010 Page 9 of 9 bead board, as staff suggested. I will use lx board but it will leave a gap since the new stuff is not the same as the old. Wiedmeyer: yes, you should match the bead board that is there. You can fur-out the new locations to get the same depth. Briska: prime and paint them before you install to help them last longer. Miller: Cut off the tongue on the last side to make it abut the existing wood easier. Owner: The fascia is deteriorating too,but that project is for another day. Motion made by Commissioner Roxworthy to approve as amended. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Couture. The motion passed unanimously. CORRESPONDENCE: COA Log No discussion. Complaint Log No discussion. ADJOURNMENT: Motion to adjourn was made by Commissioner Durrenberger. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Roxworthy. The motion passed unanimously. The meeting of the Design Review Subcommittee was adjourned at 8:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, ennifer Fritz- i iams Approved: Historical Preservation Planner July 27, 2010 lelk