HomeMy WebLinkAboutSeptember 14, 1988 COW r
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING
September 14 , 1988
The Committee of the Whole Meeting was called to order at
6 :40 p.m. Members present : Councilmen Fox, Gilliam, Moylan,
Popple, Shales, Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde. Absent : None.
Consideration of adoption of the 1987 edition of the State
Minimum Sanitary Requirements for Design and Operation of
Swimming Pools and Bathing Beaches .
This regulation was reviewed and recommended by the Elgin
Board of Health at their meeting on August 15 , 1988. Staff
recommends amending Chapter 6 . 65 . 020 of the Municipal Code
to incorporate the 1987 edition.
Councilwoman Popple made a motion, seconded by Councilman
Walters to approve staff ' s recommendation. Yeas: Councilmen
Fox, Gilliam, Moylan, Popple , Shales , Walters and Mayor
VanDeVoorde. Nays : None.
Consideration of a request from the Elgin Area Convention
and Visitors Bureau for advance funding of the fourth quarter
of 1988.
This year, with the widley publicized State funding problems ,
the State has been late in funding the Elgin Area Tourism
Program. Since State funds represent approximately one-
third of the budget , this has created significant cash flows
for the center. Staff proposes we fund the fourth quarter
of 1988 in advance on an estimated basis and then correct
the overage/underage when the final results are in in February.
Current revenue estimates appear to be right on target and
the variation should be small.
Staff recommends that Council authorize the staff to advance
for fourth quarter payment for 1988 and review the contract
for possible modification.
Councilwoman Shales made a motion, seconded by Councilman
Fox to approve staff ' s recommendation. Yeas: Councilmen
Fox, Gilliam, Moylan, Popple , Shales , Walters and Mayor
VanDeVoorde. Nays : None.
Consideration of recommendations concerning holiday decorations
for 1988.
Councilwoman Moylan made a motion, seconded by Councilwoman
Popple to approve the proposal submitted by Season' s Greetings
Company in the amount of $4 , 170 . 00 . Yeas : Councilmen Fox,
Gilliam, Moylan , Popple , Shales , Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde.
Nays: None.
Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 2
Consideration of recommendations regarding parking restrictions
on National Street between the river and Wellington.
Council reviewed a recommendation to consider the installation
of No Parking on National Street from the C&NW tracks to
the east bank of the Fox River.
Councilwoman Popple made a motion, seconded by Councilman
Fox to have this proposal brought back to the next meeting,
amending said proposal to include No Parking on the National
Street Bridge. Yeas : Councilmen Fox, Gilliam, Moylan, Popple,
Shales , Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde. Nays : None.
Consideration of recommendations regarding water service
materials purchase.
Councilman Fox made a motion, seconded by Councilman Walters
to approve staff ' s request to purchase water service material
in the amount of $23,226. Yeas: Councilmen Fox, Gilliam,
Moylan, Popple, Shales , Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde. Nays :
None.
Consideration of a recommendation regarding granting of
construction easements at Spartan Meadows .
Councilwoman Shales made a motion, seconded by Councilwoman
Popple to have the subject easement placed on the next Council
Agenda for formal passage. Yeas: Councilmen Fox, Gilliam,
Moylan, Popple, Shales , Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde. Nays:
None.
Consideration of appointment of a Council representative
to the National League of Cities meeting.
Councilman Gilliam made a motion, seconded by Councilman
Walters to appoint Councilwoman Moylan Council Representative.
Yeas: Councilmen Fox, Gilliam, Moylan, Popple, Shales , Walters
and Mayor VanDeVoorde. Nays : None.
Consideration of a report on Insurance.
Councilwoman Popple made a motion, seconded by Councilman
Walters to accept the proposal from R.C. Hanchette & Associates
for a total cost of $691, 623 , and to accept the renewal
quotation from Management Services , Inc. , for Worker' s Compensation
claims administration for a total cost of $18,200 . Yeas :
Councilmen Fox, Gilliam, Moylan, Popple , Shales , Walters
and Mayor VanDeVoorde . Nays: None .
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Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 3
Consideration of report on 1414 Dundee Avenue
The legal department furnished Council with a status report
in the case of Gerald Kopanski v. City of Elgin.
Consideration of a report on the Harris development .
Staff reviewed with the Council the unresolved issues for
the subject development .
Compensatory Storage - since almost the entire site is within
the 100 year flood elevation, the proposed building pads
much be raised to at lease one foot above the 100 year event .
Compensatory storage is required when filling the flood
plain. The developer has asked the City to waive its compensatory
storage requirements as mandated by our flood control ordinance.
Such a waiver, however, may result in the inability of property
owners to obtain flood insurance or acquire loans in flood
prone areas throughout the City.
The developer has requested the City to provide the fill
to elevate the proposed building pads . The estimated cost
of this process is $156 , 000.
The developer has requested the school and park site contributions
be waived by the City. The estimated loss of revenue is
$55 , 674 to $49 ,674 for Parks and $6 , 282 for :schools.
The City offered to finance the cost of demolition in an
amount not to exceed $324 , 000 . This amount would allow all
structures to be demolished and removed from the site.
The developer has requested the site be fully cleared of
all material. In an effort to compromise staff obtained
a proposal on a demolition plan that would remove the remaining
buildings , streets , underground tanks and concrete and foundations
to two to three feet below grade . This cost is estimated
to be $425, 000 , $221,000 over the budgeted amount .
If the flood plain requirements cannot be mitigated, the
alternative would be for the developer to modify the site
plan to provide for few but taller buildings . Such a change
in the site plan could allow for the necessary compensatory
storage to be located in the open areas as well as parking
lots . The developer has been reluctant to move toward a
more mid rise development concept because previous marketing
studies indicated a strong market for the low rise building
concept .
Staff is continuting negotiations with the developer, but
if a timely settlement cannot be reached, staff is recommending
proceeding to look for another development . Staff does
not want to have to do this because it would mean going
back to square one.
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Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 4
Councilwoman Popple asked if the developer could meet with
the Council as a group.
Councilwoman Shales stated she did not want a mid-rise development
down there , but she assumed any other developer would have
the same problems.
Councilwoman Moylan stated the Council must have a deadline
for this development and Harris should be asked to meet
with the Council.
Councilman Fox also stated there is a need to move on this
project and he would like to have Harris in so the Council
could respond to her proposals.
Councilman Gilliam stated it looked like the City and Harris
were about one-half million dollars apart .
A majority of the Council indicated they , did not want a
high rise development on the subject site.
The City Manager stated he would try to get Harris in on
the next agenda.
Riverfront Retreat
Councilman Walters made a motion, seconded by Councilwoman
Popple to reschedule the subject retreat to September 22 ,
1988, from 4 : 00 p.m, to 7 :00 p.m. Yeas: Councilmen Fox,
Gilliam, Moylan, Popple, Shales , Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde.
Nays: None.
Consideration of a report on capital projects for the month
of August .
Status Report
Public Hearing in consideration of licensing of residential
rental property.
Jennifer Becker: This program is for the registration of
all rental residential property in the City. That means
that all single and multi-family rental residential property
would be required to be registered in the City of Elgin.
The program would work in conjunction with the city-wide
exterior code inspection. The registration period would
be for four years . The registration fee would be $25 . 00
per structure, that $25 . 00 fee would cover the four year
period.
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Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 5
The program will allow the City access to the interior of
the structure without a complaint being filed, we will still
operate on a complaint basis , but this will give us another
alternative to the interior access of the building.
Basically what will happen is the inspectors will go out
into the City, they will each be given a sector of the City
that will be their responsibility of all the rental residential
in that sector. They will go from house to house and if
a certain number of exterior code problems exist , they would
request to inspect the interior of the structure.
The program provides the City with increased ability to
locate and identify it with illegal rental conversions ,
and the program also provides the City with a listing of
local owners and managers which will give us faster ability
to identify the owners and managers to contact in an emergency
situation.
Edna Krueger, 32 Woodland: I can understand the possible
need for some kind of licensing, but by the same token I
have a real serious problem if I am asked to waive my rights
relative to gaining entrance to my buildings. I see this
as a very serious situation, my consitutional rights are
in jeopardy. I would appeal to you to give some serious
consideration when you ask someone to waive rights that
they are guaranteed under the constitution and/or any other
laws.
Ina Dewes , 1208A Hemlock Lane: I am presently on the Board
of Directors of Crestwood of Elgin, and I am here because
it has been considered as an apartment and it is not . Poplar
Creek Townshouses Cooperative is the title owner of the
250 townhouse units located in the vicinity of 45 Poplar
Creek Drive in Elgin. The occupants of those townhouses
own Poplar Creek Townshouses Cooperative and the property
operates as a housing cooperative with the occupant owners
paying their proportionate share of its expenses as their
carrying charges for occupancy of their townhouse homes .
Gary King, 16 Rugby Place , President of Gifford Park Association:
I would like to say that GPA supports the proposed ordinance.
We worked long and hard to try to improve the housing stock
in the District through a number of different means . We
feel this identifies all locations in the form of single,
two-family, and on up, as opposed to the one from last year
which started from three units and up.
This creates a valid mechanism to gain entry, which does
not appear to be too heavy handed in its application, still
relies on the neighborhood and the tenants to help apply
the information. It can also be pretty much cost self-sufficient
through the application of the four year re-registration
fees.
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Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Paage 6
Chuck Gessart , 540 Thorndale: I would like to speak
in favor of this . I just purchased a single family
home and upon looking through the building it was cut
up into seven roominghouse rooms . The house has three
bathrooms , seven gas stoves , seven sinks and along
with that seven cars parked on Division Street each
night . We are converting it back into a single family.
Don Potuznik, 321 S. McLean: I don 't want anyone coming
into my apartment building and bothering my tenants .
The people here tonight are people who care about Elgin
and do not keep a dumpy place. I have a couple of places
that you can come and look at anytime you want , but
I am not going to sign anything that gives away my
rights .
I think there should be a reliable tenant association
in this town where the landlords could check on perspective
tenants . What we are doing here is nailing the property
owners who do care against the wall. You can't even
get the Elgin Housing Authority to evict the tenants
they should evict .
Therese Calcone, Gifford Park: My husband and I are
homeowners in the Historic District , I think a licensing
program also protects the tenants . Some people are
afraid to complain about the conditions in which they
live for fear that the landlord might evict them.
Pat Hill, 1095 Florimond Dr. : I have no problem with
this program except for one big exception here where
a registration permit may be revoked when the owner,
agent , tenant , or occupant has been convicted of the
sale , use, possession of a controlled substance. I
certainly have no way of knowing - I screen them very
well but if they are involved with drugs in any way
I would have no way of knowing it , and to punish me
is absolutely ludicrous,
Buford Turner, 37 N. Jane Drive: I rent from one of
the best landlords in the city. I would suggest that
if you have complaints coming in why don ' t they follow-
up the complaints instead of charging every landlord
that is not entitled to this charge.
Chuck Bennett , 18 S. Edison: During the 26 years I
have been managing property in Elgin, I cannot think
of a single time that I have ever seen a landlord go
over to property and dump out garbage in the hallway,
or park his old junk car on the property. I have never
seen him tear off the doors , tear the , plumbing off
Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 7
the wall, or do any other damage, its all been done by tenants .
I have a suggestion that we consider licensing tenants in
Elgin.
You say that you can get them out in 30 ,da Y s well you have
not been to the courts lately. So why don 't we license the
tenants and then it will be up to you folks to get them
out , and all these bad people will move out of Elgin.
Mayor VanDeVoorde: This Council has not made up its mind,
we are just listening to facts and information.
Bob Sites, 432 Hubbard Ave. : It is very unfair to ask the
tenants to have their property inspected and not observe
single family units that are not rental units . I think
we should include single, non rental residences in this
ordinance , if there is to be such an ordinance. I think this
ordinance is very unfair and needs further consideration.
Arthur Allen 400 E Chicago Street : I would like to speak
for this ordinance , and I would like to say how discouraging
it is for me, as a property owner in Elgin, to listen to
a parade of landlords and realtors come before this body
and blame the tenants for the deplorable homes . The Bureau
of Inspections Services has 400 complaints every month,
that is almost 5 , 000 complaints a year. If there are 5 , 000
complaints occurring something horrible is wrong, and no
amount of landlord smoothing it over, and asserting constitutional
rights , or hiding in an horrified fashion at a $25 . 00 fee
should distract your attention to the fact that we do have
5 , 000 complaints . We do have a horrible property situation
in this town.
If we cannot as a city go after the terrible conditions , then
there is something wrong with us , because at that point
we stop protecting ourselves , we stop acting out of a principal
of self-interest , and if government is anything, it is all
of us operating toward self-interest .
I did not think that the real estate community would come
in here this evening, blame the tenants and blame $25 . 00
to avoid correcting these kinds of serious problems . I
would hope that you would support this ordinance and give
a proper response to the property owners who have come here
this evening.
Lee Fitzsimmons , 1168 Fairwood: I drive around this town,
I sell real estate in this town, and I would like to know
just how bad this town is . I would like to know the percentage
of bad buildings in this town, is it 5% , is it 2% , how much
is it . You are getting 5 ,000 complaints a year, it would
seem to me that the Bureau of Inspection has a right to
go out and take care of those now. Why are you licensing
the 95% of the people that own good buildings in this town,
they care about this town, and you are going to penalize
Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 8
them.
I can pick out the bad things and the Bureau of City Inspections
can go over there right now, without licensing me, without
disturbing my tenants , and take care of that right now.
They have 400 complaints a month, they are going to ask
us to be licensed so they can add more to that , they can 't
handle what they got now, why are we going to license people
so we can open up that opportunity.
Al Cox, 600 Marguerite : I have a heard a lot here about
licensing and waiving of rights and so forth, however, rental
is a business , no different than a resturant , or any other
business . These people are making money from furnishing
a home. So what is the big deal about getting inspection,
the inspection should be done no matter what the outside
looks like.
Glenn Tyson, 1306 Blackhawk Drive: I don 't think there
should be any objection to this ordinance , with a couple
of exceptions . One , if the concern of the community is
in good structures , there should not be any discrimination
against who owns the property, whether it is rental, whether
it is owner occupied. If you are after upgrading the community
and the property every piece of property should be subject
to investigation and checking for codes .
Mel Schrock, 2000 Country Knoll Lane: We have been managing
a lot of property over 26/27 years , and I don ' t see any
real purpose in this ordinance, because I think we are trying
to take care of the city complaints as quickly as possible.
Over the years we have been cooperating with the City and
I don ' t want to get to the point where we are fighting each
other, if the landlords take care of everything they can
that is all that is necessary, and I think most of us are
doing that .
If you have 400 complaints you should look into these areas
rather than take on the whole town.
Larry Mann, 120 McKinstry Dr. : I guess most of us resent
new ordinances , more big brother action, I think that is
the manner of small business , and that is what most of us
are, small business . I think the majority of the people
in Elgin take pride in the buildings that they have and
try to keep them up. I feel that we have a small interest
group that is encouraging this and I don ' t see why additional
ordinances are necessary. If we have had 400 complaints
a month that is being done without any ordinances .
Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 9
If a party has a building that is badly neglected and the
City complains , I have seen where some of those things have
been corrected, and six months later the situation was identical
and the party was asked to correct them again, they did 'nt
and the people did not move out because I kind of wondered
where we would put all of these people, who are living in
some of these areas that are unsatisfactory.
Now if I have a neighbor whose property is not taken care
of, I think I can make enough noise in City Hall myself
iiwithout asking the City Council to pass a special ordinance .
Gary Crittenden, 2306 Knollwood: I am opposed to the concept
of the ordinance as being unwarranted. Historically bodies
of this nature under estimate the cost of such a project .
You under estimate the success of this program, and my third
objection is that you already have the necessary mechanism
and ordinances in place to take care of these problems ,
namely, the zoning ordinance , the building codes and the
health codes.
I only ask that you be sure of your facts . How much property
are we talking about in relation to the total City, 2% ,
5% , 10% , are you asking the majority of the people to support
a minority situation. 400 complaints a month, are those
complaints legitimate , take a good look at them and make
sure they are not duplicate complaints .
Patricia er Challen representing
g Limited Partnership Asset
Management Corp. , that represents investors who own a parcel
of rental property here in Elgin. Our concern is that we
did not learn of this hearing until this afternoon, nor
were we provided a written copy of the ordinance. There
is no question that we should support efforts to comply
with the building codes , we are all in favor of that . We
are concerned with the technical aspects of the ordinance
and we would like to have the opportunity to sit down and
work with the municipality and go over the statistics .
I would like to know more about the complaint system. I
believe as others have said that there may not be a need
and purpose to really get the results that you want to achieve.
We manage about 42 ,000 units in Illinois , Indiana and Wisconsin,
and what we see in most of these municipalities is a system
set up in response to complaints , and/or when the property
turns over, or sells , there would be an inspection conducted.
I would like to know more about the 400 complaints in relation
to the total number of rental units in the area, how the
complaints are applied, or allocated to the different properties,
the nature of the complaints .
Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 10
We are concerned about a uniform application of any type
of ordinance. I feel I have not been given the time to
sit down with you and try to work through these problems ,
and I would ask for more time before you move to pass any
ordinance .
Mayor VanDeVoorde: Gordon, does your staff have more work
than they can take care of now.
Gordon Burkart : There is tremendous amount of work out
there. What Council has allowed us to do in the last two
or three years has been to pursue a very aggresive enforcement
program. I apologize for some of the numbers that you are
hearing, because we do not have the ability right now to
break down 400 complaints per month in rental and non rental
areas . If we sat down and examined where our complaints
are coming from you will find that a lot of them are generated
by our people , there are complaints from tenants , and there
are complaints from landlords .
Mayor VanDeVoorde: Because of the time, I think we have
two choices , to adjourn this public hearing, or continue
it to another time, what is the pleasure of the Council.
Councilwoman Shales : I would move that we adjourn this
public hearing.
Councilwoman Popple : Second.
Councilman Walters: I think there are more comments to
be made on this , I do think there needs to be some more
discussion about this. I don ' t know that adjourning the
public hearing at this point would necessarily be in our
best interest , I feel that perhaps to continue it would
allow us to have more opportunity to have people come in
an talk to us .
Councilman Fox: I feel like John does only because there
are a lot of comments made this evening that I have a lot
of questions about , and when I ask those questions some
of the answers need to come from people who are sitting
out here, and I feel they should have that opportunity to
react to anything that any of us might say when we have
the opportunity to talk. For those reasons I would like
to continue this.
Councilwoman Shales : Adjourning the public hearing is not
going to adjourn all further discussion, I have written
down four things that I want explored and I think we can
get imput from these people without continuing this particular
Committee of the Whole Meeting
September 14 , 1988
Page 11
I think we could work into some of these areas much better
if this public hearing is closed. If we change the ordinance
in any way we will have another public hearing.
Councilwoman Popple: My second also is going along with
Councilwoman Shales ' idea, not so much to end the discussion,
but to end the imput enough for the Council to have an opportunity
to discuss things . As it continues here we are not having
that opportunity and I think we definitely will have to
have time to talk about this , and I would also like Councilman
Gilliam to be present .
Councilwoman Moylan: I will vote to close it tonight , but
there are several questions that I have , there is more information
I need on some of these articles , we can open it again and
seek further information, so I will support adjourning it
at this time.
Mayor VanDeVoorde : I too will support adjourning this matter,
I think the public hearing served its purpose.
Councilman Fox: I am going to vote no only because I think
it should be continued not because I am opposed to the motion
itself.
Yeas: Councilmen Moylan, Popple, Shales and Mayor VanDeVoorde.
Nays: Councilmen Fox and Walters .
Adjournment
Councilman Walters made a motion, seconded by Councilman
Fox to adjourn the Committee of the Whole Meeting to go
into Executive Session to discuss personnel, litigation,
and acquisition of real estate. Yeas : Councilmen Fox, Moylan,
Popple, Shales, Walters and Mayor VanDeVoorde. Nays : None.
The meeting adjourned at 10 :05 p.m.
Marie Yearm City Clerk