HomeMy WebLinkAboutbuilding commission minutes 04 15 2015BUILDING COMMISSION
MINUTES
Wednesday, April 15,2015,2:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Hudgens, Chuck Kellenberger, Dave Teas, Tom
Lohbauer, Steve Silva and David Ryan.
MEMBERS ABSENT: John Shales.
STAFF PRESENT: Marc Mylott, Raoul Johnston, Matt Falco, Gary Line, Chief
John Fahy EFD, Deputy Chief Tim Maroder EFD, Art Peters
EFD, Ron Sessions EFD and Sandra Kolba.
VISITORS: Bill Kish, President of No Burn, Lindsay C. Lenze, Director
Sales & Marketing of No Burn and Jon S. Traw, P.E., Traw
Associates Consulting.
CALL TO ORDER:
The meeting was called to order by Pat Hudgens at 2:05 p.m., in the 2nd Floor South
Conference Room at City Hall, 150 Dexter Court, Elgin, IL.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
The minutes of the March 11, 2015, meeting were presented. A motion was made by
Chuck Kellenberger and seconded by Dave Ryan and the minutes of that meeting were
unanimously approved.
PRESENTATION /APPEAL FOR NO -BURN PRODUCT USE:
Lindsey Lenze first passed out a new UES Evaluation Report on the No -Burn
product and then presented a power point presentation regarding her product, No-
Burn. The presentation consisted of items taken from the Building Commission
meeting minutes of May 21, 2014 during which the Commission voted to not use the
No -Burn product and No-Burn's reply to those concerns. During this presentation,
questions and comments were posed by the Fire Department, the Building
Commission and city staff regarding the No -Burn responses.
Chief Fahy wondered why the product was not UL approved and the response was
that, to have the product UL approved would be too expensive and that the
company chose not to and, instead, had other independent field tests done on the
product.
Matt Falco asked what type of environment would be required for a field
application and he was told that it would be an inside environment with some
conditions. No -Burn indicated that the air temperature has to be at least 40 degrees
when applied, takes 60 to 90 minutes to dry and 24 hours to cure.
During the presentation, ASTM E119 was mentioned and Marc Mylott asked where
this was mentioned and the response was in Section 3.5 Fire Resistance on page 2 of
the handout given to the Commission by No -Burn. Also, a question was posed as to
how this new UES Evaluation Report differed from the report that had been given to
the City and Building Commission and the answer was that some of the tables were
amended but, otherwise, was the same.
No -Burn was referring to "certified applicators' and Chief Fahy asked who are
those applicators? No -Burn responded that they train the installers/ applicators on
site and on -line and that includes private companies as well as national companies.
It was indicated that the number one installer of the No -Burn product has 190 offices
across the country as well as his company offers field training. No -Burn indicated
that they profile which contractors they wish to use and that those contractors go
through a checklist such as 1) how long in business; 2) background check; etc.
Marc asked, if the owner is certified, does that automatically mean that his
employees are certified and No -Burn indicated that anyone that is doing the
installation would need to be certified and that they receive a wallet card which is
renewed annually with out fee but, if there is any updated training, it would be
required before the installer would receive the new wallet card. Ron Sessions asked
if the training process included an on -line annual test and the answer was yes.
Marc asked who was the distributer of the product and No -Burn indicated that they
were the only ones who distributed it.
Matt Falco asked if there was a third party inspection service in the field to verify if
the installers are licensed and hold a card and No -Burn indicated there was not.
Marc asked if there were any other municipalities with third party inspectors and
the answer was no. Raoul added that he has had 23 years experience in the field and
self - certification is not acceptable. He indicated that the city would require a third -
party inspection (if the Commission would change their decision). Ron Sessions
believed that the special inspectors would need to be certified as well.
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Chief Fahy asked if there were any other municipalities in the State of Illinois that
use the No -Burn product and the answer was that there were none at this time and
that Elgin would be the first to approve the use if the Commissions decision was
reversed. Chief also asked why the product was not applied in a factory and the
response was that it has, for all it's history, only been applied in the field. Chief
reiterated that the City now has a sprinkler ordinance and the builders have four
options that they can choose from and, to date, there have been no complaints.
Chief said that the No -Burn product looked like a good product if it was applied
properly but he didnt see a guarantee that that would be done. Flack jacket was
approved because it was factory installed.
Tom Lohbauer asked to verify the procedure - build house, install roof and vapor
barriers, but no mechanicals. Dave Ryan wondered what would happen if the new
homeowners might start drilling through the areas that have been coated. The
response to this was that, if that did happen, during a fire, the product would
expand and close those holes up. Pat Hudgens reminded the No -Burn people that
the climate here in Illinois is very humid with a lot of rain and moisture year round
and asked what the maximum humidity level for the product. No -Burn responded
that the humidity is outside, not on the inside and that, otherwise, there are no
restrictions on humidity with their application. They added that curing of the
product may take longer and be tackier for a longer period of time but that it would
not affect the product.
No -Burn passed out a letter from Dr. Joseph Lstiburek of Building Science
Corporation and everyone perused the letter with no questions.
Raoul asked, if temperatures were in the 40's, how long would the product have to
be maintained and the answer was only during installation. Raoul added that, if the
Commission would reverse its decision, he would require a third party inspector.
He added that he liked the fact that, during application, the product is also applied
to the subflooring. Marc asked No -Burn if the product was not sprayed on the
entire subfloor, would it have the same 2x10 protection and the answer was no.
However, No -Burn added that, the reason applied to the subflooring was because it
was easier to apply to the floor and I- joists at the same time.
Raoul then asked, if after a fire situation, what happens to the treated I- joists - do
they get removed or do they get re- coated? The answer was that it would be up to
the engineer to verify the damage to the structure and, if the product was activiated,
it could be scraped off and re- coated.
Chuck Kellenberger wondered if there was any documentation where the product
had failed and No -Burn indicated that they had one case in a 20 -year history in
Oklahoma where there was an arson in a large home on large acreage. Over a six
month period, someone was starting fires; five went out and one took. However,
there were many saves because of the product. Chuck added that maybe a second
application needed to be applied for double protection.
Lindsey finished her presentation by showing a short film as to how the product
was applied from beginning to end.
Upon the completion of the presentation and question and answer session, Pat
Hudgens asked all attendees if they had any final questions or comments that they
would like to add before the Commission members made a motion and decision on
the No -Burn appeal. Chief Fahy said that the No -Burn company was from
neighboring Ohio but that the City of Elgin would be the first in Illinois to try the
product. However, since the building community currently already have four
choices, he asked that the Building Commission take its decision seriously. In sum,
the Chief said that he would not want to approve No -Burn due to the field
application questions and because there are no other municipalities in the State of
Illinois that are using the product. Marc Mylott indicated that he has already
expressed his concerns and echos the concerns of the Chief and stands with the
opinion of the fire department.
Lindsey added that the No -Burn product compares with the same level of
performance as the Flack Jacket product and she is not asking that the Commission
use its product in lieu of the Flack Jacket product but, rather, just as an additional
option. She reminded the Commission that the product is installed by certified
installers as was shown in her presentation. It was also mentioned that the No -Burn
product is currently being used in 25 -30 states by seven of the top twenty builders in
the country.
Pat Hudgens then opened the meeting to motion from the Commission members. A
motion was made by Tom Lohbauer to continue to not allow the use of the No -Bum
product, the motion was seconded by Dave Teas, and a vote was taken and the
motion passed unanimously.
Pat Hudgens thanked the No -Burn people for taking the time to come out and ask
the Building Commission to reconsider and indicated that they offered a good
presentation.
NEW BUSINESS:
There was no new business discussed at this meeting.
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
There were no public comments presented at this meeting.
ADIOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Dave Ryan to adjourn the meeting at 4:00 p.m., and
seconded by Tom Lohbauer. The motion passed unanimously and the meeting was
adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
Date: 3'