HomeMy WebLinkAboutbuilding Commssion 2 21 12 minutesBUILDING COMMISSION
MINUTES
Tuesday, February 21, 2012, 2:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Hudgens, Steve Silva, Dave Teas, Dave Ryan, Dick
Sinnett, Chuck Kellenberger and Tom Lohbauer.
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Raoul Jolulston; Marc Mylott; Gary Line, Dave Decker,
Steve Bone, John Wangles EFD, Chief John Fahy ETD,
Scott Heinrich EFD and Sandra Kolba.
VISITORS: Dan Olsem, Crown Community Developers; Jason
Boyer, Joe Bajko, Karen VanDeDrink, Deon Cross, Pulte
Homes; Pat Curran, West Point Builders; Mark Stefani,
Kings Court Builders; Jamie Pease, Toll Brothers; Mary
Krasner, Wyndam Deerpoint; and Steve Tag,
Weyerhaueuser.
CALL TO ORDER:
The meeting was called to order by Pat Hudgens at 2:03 p.m., in the 1st Floor
South Tower Conference Room.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
The minutes of the February 7, 2012, meeting were presented. A motion was made
by Chuck Kellenberger and seconded by Steve Silva and the minutes of that
meeting were unanimously approved.
NEW BUSINESS:
Pat Hudgens reminded the Commission members that they needed to take the
Open Meeting Test and get the results to Raoul Johnston at their earliest
convenience. Raoul indicated that he would be responsible for getting the
certifications to the City Clerk once he receives them.
CONTINUE REVIEW OF THE 2012 INT. RESIDENTIAL CODE:
Section 8302.1 Exterior Walls; Section 309.5 Fire Sprinklers; Section R313
Automatic Fire Sprinkler Systems; and Section 501.3 Fire Protection of
Floors: In order to continue the discussion on the fire sprinkler issues, a
motion was made by Dick Sinnett to remove the discussion from the table and
Tom Lohbauer seconded the motion; all approved.
Pat Hudgens asked Raoul to reiterate those portions of the last meeting since
Pat wasn't there; Raoul briefed the Commission about the last meeting's
discussions. He indicated that, after the last meeting, staff met with the fire
department personnel and they came to an agreement as to what the city staff
would propose and recommend to the Commission. There would be three
options as follows:
1) If TJIs are used in the basement, three to five sprinkler heads would be
required to be installed in the basement; the sprinkler heads would be
tied into the domestic water system to prevent back flow requirement,
promote water flow with no dead ends and prevent bacterial growth
due to dead ends.
2) If TJIs are used but the builders do not want to install the fire sprinkler
system in the basement, the bottom of the TJIs would be required to be
covered with 1/2" drywall.
3) If TJIs are not used and no fire sprinklers installed, then dimensional
lumber would be required.
Marc introduced Fire Chief John Fahy to the guests and thanked the Chief for
coming to this meeting. Marc indicated that he had had conversations with the
Chief regarding TJIs and he was told that, even if the spacing of the TJIs were
closer together, it doesn't help in a fire situation. Marc asked the Chief if he
would like to add any information.
Chief Fahy indicated that he has worked in the Fire Department in Elgin for 25
years and, as a matter of fact, has built 25 homes himself, so he feels he has
similar knowledge and background as do the builders present. He reiterated
the TJI discussion with Marc and said that, by adding more bulk, it then
becomes a deflection issue as TJIs burn very fast since they are not a solid mass.
He indicated that they had come up with a solution with offering the three
options of which builders can choose to use to use. The city presently has 7,000
to 8,000 platted properties ready for construction. Those homes will need to
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follow one of the three options. Any newly platted properties and
developments would have to follow the full 2012 code with fully sprinklered
homes and those developments would be provided with adequate 1 -1/4" or 1-
1/2" water service lines to handle the fire sprinkler systems.
From a urban planning prospective, Marc indicated that this will help prevent
the "leap frog" development. This will help to keep people interested in
building in currently platted areas rather than starting a new development.
Pat asked if there would be any issues with insurance companies. One builder
had a letter from Pekin Insurance Company indicating that they would not
insure a builder who would be installing residential sprinkler systems due to
the concerns of installation and exposure (if a sprinkler would go off
incorrectly). Pat indicated that the Commission would take the letter under
advisement but believed that the letter was vague and felt that a little
investigation with other insurance carriers would be worthwhile. Pat
volunteered to do the research. Dick Sinnett felt that the insurance companies
are probably concerned about leakage so they are cautious about the idea.
However, water lines can leak too. Raoul reminded everyone that the
sprinklers would be tied into the domestic lines which are copper lines, not
plastic. Dick Sinnett indicated that the insurance companies eventually better
get used to the idea that homes are going to have sprinklers as it is written in
the International Residential Code.
Tom Lohbauer wondered why the sprinklers would be placed only in
basements and not on the first or second floors and Marc answered that those
upper levels will have drywall on the bottom of the floor joists /TJIs.
A concern was raised whether domestic water lines will be substantial to cover
the sprinklers in the basement and Chief Fahy indicated that a 1" supply line
should cover the basement. One sprinkler head will cover 400 square feet.
Dave Decker said that the domestic service is a looped system. Marc suggested
that one of the Commission members might want to talk to Kyla Jacobsen in
the Water Department regarding whether the 1" domestic water service would
work with four sprinkler heads and without backflow problems.
Pat Hudgens asked what the additional fees would be for the larger meters and
it was discussed that the fees are somewhere around $50 to $90 more per
month on a water bill. Raoul indicated that he would check the costs of the
fees. Dick Sinnett said that the city has, occasionally in the past, reduced
charges on larger taps on big buildings and maybe the city would be willing to
do the same for the larger residential taps.
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Steve Silva was concerned about a possible health issue with combining the
sprinkler system with the water service. He believes that this should be looked
at by an engineer to be sure that the city's water system is adequately
protected.
Marc asked who the plumbing expert was in the room and Dave Teas indicated
that he was the plumbing representative on the Building Commission. Marc
asked Dave if he also would be willing to work along with Raoul with the
water department to iron out these concerns.
Dave Teas wondered where, within a home, do most fires occur and Chief
Fahy responded that most fires are in garages and kitchens and that very few
fires are actually in mechanical rooms. Chief Fahy added that, within the
Plumbing Code, sprinkler heads are considered another fixture.
One of the builders wondered, if most fires are not in basements, how
sprinklers in the basement will accomplish anything and wondered if it
warranted the cost and Chief Fahy answered that firefighter and human life
safety is worth the cost. Chief Fahy said that this was the compromise that they
came up with and, if one tragedy is prevented, it is worth the cost.
The builder indicated that, under these circumstances, they might have to find
other communities in which to build. Dick Sinnett said he understood what the
builders were saying but believed that most communities are soon going to
adopt the 2012 code. Tom Lohbauer indicated that Hoffman Estates and
Dundee both require sprinklers now. Raoul indicated that, at a Northwest
BOCA meeting he recently attended, he was told that there are at least 60+
communities that require full sprinklers and that number will just be going up
in the future.
Marc indicated to the builders that he appreciated their opinions. Pat indicated
that the Commission will take all the concerns into consideration - installation
costs, water meter costs, health issues, insurance companies, etc. - and, after
further research, will come back to the Commission before making a final
decision. Pat thanked the builders for coming and expressing their opinions
and indicated to them that the fire sprinkler discussion is complete and the
Commission will now be continuing other discussion and the builders were
welcome to continue to stay and listen or leave.
Section R315 - Carbon Monoxide Alarms: The question was whether the
phrase "vicinity of bedrooms' should be changed to "within 15 feet of a
bedroom," since the word "vicinity" is open for interpretation. Dave believed
that both the Carbon Monoxide Alarms and Smoke Alarms should match in the
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code at 15 feet of a bedroom. Pat Hudgens asked if there was a quality
requirement for both Carbon Monoxide Alarms and Smoke Alarms and Dave
responded that they must be listed. He also indicated that Smoke Alarms
should be replaced every ten years while Carbon Monoxide Alarms should be
replaced every five years. Pat indicated that some Carbon Monoxide Alarms
are actually cumulative and, over time, small amounts of carbon monoxide
may build up until, eventually, the alarm goes off as if there is a sudden carbon
monoxide alert. Tom Lohbauer asked if there is a definitive location for
Carbon Monoxide Alarms, high or low? Chief Fahy said that it depended upon
manufacturers' recommendations. After discussion, it was agreed by all of the
Commission members that the wording should read "within 15 feet of a
bedroom."
R602.7 - Headers: A motion was made by Tom Lohbauer to remove the
discussion on this Section from the table. The motion was seconded by Chuck
Kellenberger and all agreed. Raoul briefed Pat Hudgens on the discussion
from the last meeting. Pat asked Steve Silva if he had formed an opinion since
the last meeting and Steve indicated that he did not have a chance to take a
close look at this Section. He did agree that single headers were good for
insulation purposes. Dave Ryan said that, based on an engineer's standpoint,
he did not see any problem with the single headers. Gary Line suggested that
maybe additional backing at the corners might be an alternative to requiring
double headers. Steve Silva asked about an inside face requirement but Dave
Decker said that it was better on the outside for insulation and moisture
purposes. Dave added that the code should remain as single headers and see
who does it and who doesn't. It was agreed by all of the Commission members
to leave the code as is with the requirement for single headers.
Sections 602.10 -,,Wall Bracing and 602.12.2.1- Minimum Length of Wall
Without Openings: Steve Silva made a motion to remove this item from table,
Tom Lohbauer seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. Raoul
indicated that the Sections were rewritten to be more easily readable and
understandable and, in a way, condensed. After brief discussion, it was agreed
by the Commission members to leave these Sections as rewritten.
Chapter 11- Energy Code: Raoul reiterated that it was staff's recommendation
to completely remove this Chapter from the 2012 International Residential
Code insofar as it is covered in its entirety by the State's adoption of the 2012
International Energy Conservation Code. After brief discussion, it was agreed
by all Commission members to delete this Chapter in its entirety.
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ADJOURNMENT:
Prior to adjournment, Pat Hudgens indicated that, hopefully, by the next
meeting, the Commission should be able to finalize the residential fire sprinkler
issues. Raoul indicated to all that the next meeting date would be Tuesday,
March 13, 2012, and that he would send an official Notice of Meeting in the
near future.
A motion was made by Tom Lohbauer to adjourn the meeting at 3:20 p.m., and
seconded by Dick Sinnett. The motion passed unanimously and the meeting
was adjourned.
submitted,
L. Kolba
Acting Secretary
Date: �� i_